Wondering about taking your elder into your home?

I would like to add another bit of information I did not consider or even fully understand and that was the real health of my mother. First, I did not know how bad her health really was. She hid important health facts from me in order to manipulate me into bringing her into my home. When you don't live with a LO, you don't always know the extent of their medical conditions. They become very proficient at showtiming and they are not alway transparent with the "true" health. For me, I had no idea that my mother had dementia or that she is going blind. These are very important facts that if I knew, it may have allowed me to consider whether or not I an appropriate caregiver.

Don’t ever think that it is easier to move a parent into your home because it’s a hassle going back and forth to their house to care for them.

I moved my mom into our home after she lost her home in hurricane Katrina. Trust me, it isn’t easier.

My mom was still fairly independent when she first moved in. She couldn’t drive but she didn’t even need a walker yet.

I was still able to work. I had time for my family and a social life because she could be left alone.

As her care needs progressed, I was devoting more and more time to her. I ended up quitting my job, which threw me into a deep depression.

My anxiety was through the roof from caregiving full time and losing all sense of who I was anymore.

So, when the time comes that your loved one’s care requires more than you can reasonably do, please consider facility care, because even with help from agency caregivers like I had, it becomes too difficult.

Just the sleepless nights alone are reason enough to stop being a full time caregiver. Sure, we went through sleepless nights with our children but children grow up and become independent!

Our elderly parents are going in the opposite direction and will eventually need more help than we can comfortably give.

We don’t bounce back as easily from those sleepless nights as we grow older.

Bumping this up. Please read this thread BEFORE you move your parent into your home.

Graci,

I am so sorry that your mom is behaving this way. Of course, it hurts. How could it not hurt?

Be at peace knowing that you have done your very best.

Hugs!

Today's update: If you think that it's easier once your loved one gets into an AL, it's doesn't. I got a call from my mom today, she was using the house phone and I didn't recognize the number and answered. She started the conversation with I have renamed you Tanya. You are now Tanya. I said "hi mom, how are you doing?" She said she's mad. Very mad. She wants her iphone and she knows I took it. I explained it was lost and I ordered a new one and will bring it over as soon as it arrives. She carried on about the iphone for a bit and then started with a list of things she needs me to buy and bring over to her. I made the list and told her I'd be there in a couple of days and drop it off. She then said she doesn't know why she can't come back here to my house. She knows that I have an attorney and a court order??? I don't know what she's talking about and tell her that I don't have a court order so she just kept saying I am a liar over and over again. I told her that I am doing the best I can and she just needs to calm down and be happy with where she is at because this is her only choice. She said she doesn't want me as POA. I told her that I was working on that. She said thank you Tanya and hung up.

So why do I feel so bad. I know I should not feel bad but I do. I called the APS rep and let her know about my mom's wishes in case that is good enough for them to let me resign and they can take it from there. But, I was only able to leave a voice mail. I will continue to provide updates.

Glad that you’re making progress, Graci! Keep us posted.

Take care.

POA Update from Graciekelli in Arizona:
I spoke to my attorney today and because my mother is mentally incapacitated, I cannot simply withdraw as POA. The attorney advised that I would need to petition the court to assign guardianship because to simply withdraw could cause charges on me for abandonment.

My attorney said that I can do this myself, as it is fairly simple, and less costly then using an attorney. I hope these posts provide those considering "helping" their elders by moving them in and becoming POA, what exactly they are in for. I have taken on way more than I ever thought or imagined. Now I will be needing to go to court and file just to have myself removed from this responsibility. I will provide updates as I work through this process.

Thanks Barb,
Very helpful.

So glad the meeting with APS went well, Gracie!

Just one more thing to cross off your list -- getting rid of that POA!

@Burnt,
Please know, I am NOT communicating with mommy dearest only to the AL Manager. My actual plan was NOT to make contact with her at least for 6 months just for the reasons you outlined. However, I do want to be cooperative to the AL so that mommy dearest doesn't get kicked out and APS comes knocking on my door. But, as I understand it, even if mom decides to throw a mega meltdown, I am not on the hook, the AL, SW and APS will now be "IT" and they will have to handle without my help. Isn't that right!

@gracie

You need to STOP! I am very surprised that the facility didn't recommend that you not communicate with your mother for a couple of weeks so she can get acclimated to her new environment.

Please, do not take her calls or talk to her for a couple of weeks. Believe me you are not doing her any favors by jumping to do her bidding the second she starts crying or commanding you to do so.
She will never acclimate to the new AL if you keep doing this.
You are enabling her behavior and should stop right npw.
Communicate with the director of the facility for the next couple of weeks and they can give you updates on your mother.

Wait a couple of weeks then discuss turning POA over to the facility or they can help find a conservator for your mother.

RE: POA, I will definitely call attorney on Monday and find out exactly what MINIMUM LEGAL way I need to do to resign POA when there is no one else to handle my mothers financial or medical needs and not be charged with elder abandonment again.

Thanks Scampi1 - great information. It is over, I have no idea why they needed to tell me "in-person" that they were closing the abandonment case but she said she needed to. Whatever. She told me that she was sending me 2 closing letters. I said 2? She said the other one was for the first case that was opened by my mom's doctor's office the week before (I had forgotten about that one). That one alleged self neglect and mismanagement of meds.

I had already met with the APS prior to my mom's meltdown that ended her in psyche facility. Mom refuses to shower and refuses to allow me to manager her medication. She shouted at the doctor in the office "I MANAGE MY OWN MEDS!!!!" I am sure that prompted their call to APS.

I asked APS rep the first time she came to speak with me - what should I do?? My mother doesn't want to shower- should me and my husband physically pull her into the shower? NO. We aren't going to do that. I asked what she thought I should do if she refuses to shower or refuses to let me manager her meds. APS had no answers for me. I told APS during this visit that I can't provide the appropriate care for her she needs to go into a facility.

Then meltdown happened and a miracle happened - AL was found!!! yay me!!!

First of all, the OP did not abandon her elderly, mentally ill mother. She could not provide the level of care her mother requires.
So other arrangements were made for her.

I do not see how there could be any law on the books in The United States or any civilized free country where a person is legally obligated to indenture or enslave themselves because an elderly family member needs a caregiver.
Or that they would still be obligated to provide this care even though it may put the health and safety of either themselves or the elder in peril.

Absolutely preposterous.

ANY lawyer would easily be able to skirt such a law for a client in such a situation.

By the way...thank you all for the lovely Anniversary wishes. DH and I had a wonderful evening...however, late last night, I recieved a VM from mom. She was crying and carrying on about needing her cell phone and cried oh...my chest hurts please call me, I need my phone, I love you.....This is all part of my mother's manipulation.

I sent the Manager at the AL an email explaining that her cell phone got lost in the shuffle between facilities and that I put a flip phone in her purse with charger and added the numbers I had that she would want. I also told her that I was working on getting a new iphone for her.

Today, I got a message from Manager that my mom wanted several other friends numbers (that I don't have), my brother's number and my dad's number. She also asked if my mom can have a small cash allowance for her daily diet coke. (I guess her chest no longer hurts!)

I sent my brother and dad's number to Manager and told her my mom has $15 in her wallet, in her purse and an atm bankcard with $200 on it.

She's been in facility for 2 days and already I am running around for her. This has to stop and with Alvadeer's advise. I am dumping all responsibiliy of being her POA for all things.

Grace, what does your lawyer say about resignation of POA?

You want to do this in the proper way for your state so that it isn't construed as abandonment.

Oh Alvadeer, thank you so much for this advise. Why is the SW and APS lady telling me to apply for public fiduciary??? The way you stated it, I can just revolk my POA and be done with it. I really like that method.

Graci, YOU won't be getting a public fiduciary assigned. THE STATE must do that. Don't step in; don't interfere. ONLY resign. At that point the state will say your Mom has no one to act for her. They then will have to do what they do. It is the COURT that appoints a fiduciary. At the point you resign it is ALL OUT OF YOUR HANDS. This isn't something you can do half way, still having input. You either do it or you resign it. After you resign they will appoint people and you just "play dead". You thereafter aren't responsible whatever they do.

Gracie, I'm glad that the APS visit turned out okay!

So glad you will be resigning your POA; I suspect a Public Guardian may have the wherewithal to compel your brother's compliance.

Today's update: APS arrived on time this morning at 8:00 am. She stayed for about 10 minutes. She told me that this meeting was a formality because the Mental Health Facility was getting ready to discharge my mother and I informed them that she could not come back and that would be considered abandonment. However, since an AL was found this case is closed and I would be getting a letter.

I didn't get into any further discussion with her about this as it is a moot point. However, APS asked me if I considered filing for ALTCS (Arizona's Medicaid) for my mother. I told APS, that my mother is a Naturalized Citizen, (you have to prove citizenship on the ALTCS application.) My mother left all her naturalization papers at my brother's house. In order to get a copy of her naturalization docs, you have to provide alien number. That too was left at my brother's house. As was her medicare card. I told APS, that I have reached out to the DA in California to speak to my SIL's attorney to get these documents back. I have not heard back.

I then asked APS if there was anyway she could help my mother. She said no.

Well then as you all can see my mother's life is a hot mess. One I really don't have the wear-with-all to nativigate. My next steps...talk to my attorney and the public fiduciary office to get information about removing myself as POA and getting a public fiduciary assigned.

"We rescheduled for Friday morning at 800 am I will update you after our meeting on Friday morning:)"

How did the meeting go, Gracie?

Sounds like the doctor complicated the situation. In most of these APS cases, they will usually come to your house for an investigation. My question is this: What are they actually investigating? Dealing with a mentally ill person especially bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder (no meds for this one) and third stage dementia would be too much for anyone to handle. You will be towing the line and putting your own mental and emotional health in danger. This doctor needs his head examined. Most of these doctors get on a power trip and don't take into consideration that we are not equipped to handle a person with this level of mental illness. What is wrong with people! Dealing with a person with Borderline Personality Disorder alone is enough to drive a saint to blasphemy. I had a client with BPD and Bipolar disorder and I dropped the client. There is nothing more frightening than to witness an adult having a raging outburst.

My older sister kept calling APS on me and making false reports. I had to deal with APS all the time. I got really nasty with them after awhile and stopped answering the phone because it was more nonsense. After awhile, I went and talked to an attorney. In your case, I would make a complaint against the doctor who did this and get the attorney involved.

I was in the bathtub one morning when a call came in and this nut sister of mine called APS saying that my younger sister had called to file a complaint that I had locked her in the room and refused to feed her. I laughed! I told the person that my sister was downstairs with the Home Health Aide having her breakfast. I told the APS person that my older sister probably made the call. My younger sister couldn't talk and was vision impaired. So, there was no way she would be able to call. She was very low functioning and didn't have the mental capacity to even do so. I told the Home Health Aide to pick up the phone and give these people your work number and the name of the company. I just got tired and started the process of placement for my sister, and it took three years. I secured an apartment and moved out. My dad had to leave his comfort zone in Baltimore to finish the process. My sister was leaving in two weeks for her new group home. I was in the process of moving. I got the ball rolling. I don't see any reason APS to get involved with issues that are already in process to being resolved other than to get a government paycheck. In most cases, they are useless and just tie up your time.

Most people with these disorders are eventually moved into group home settings supplied and paid by the government. Don't let APS strong arm you into taking on a situation that you are not equipped to handle. As long as you follow the proper channels of a hospitalization at a mental health ward, have discussions with the social worker and doctors involved in her care that's is all that is required of you. It's not like you just dropped her off at the doorstep and ran.

One thing I found out is just because a healthcare worker or APS comes out of their mouth with an accusation, doesn't make it gospel. They try all these tactics of manipulating innocent people for no reason.

And I must say, APS did not have a hand in my sister's placement in the group home. The faster you get your mom placed and out of your house, this should be resolved. So, when all is this is over, what is there to go to court for?

It should be a warning for those who are making a decision about taking on caregiving responsibilities. Often it seems to become a game of "tag-you're it!" After you are "it", don't expect much help from others or professionals in the community unless you have money. The reality though for many of us is we seem to slip into the caregiver role slowly and don't fully realize the mess we are in until it is too late.

Regarding the abandonment laws, for one, I believe most charges would not hold up in court or even go very far as long as the caregiver takes the proper steps beforehand. No, of course you can't just drop off the elder at the ER and disappear or leave someone at the fire station and drive away, just like you can't do that to an infant. But you can give an infant up for adoption, and you can give an elder over to the care of the state. It is just that there is no outlined guideline, or agency to go to, for doing that. The people who often find themselves in this position are those who are above the poverty line, not already connected with social services, but have little money otherwise and certainly not enough to pay for in home help or assisted living. There is simply no help from, or not enough help given by our society to these people. The way to avoid "abandonment" charges or having those charges hold up against you in court is to seek out help before you drop off the elder, or if LO is in the hospital, you make it clear to the SW that you are unable to safely care for the LO anymore. You clearly explain why it is dangerous for either you or LO in the current situation. You have to be proactive. You don't abandon your LO, you seek out help, and if not enough help is available, that is not your fault.

I think the law is right in making this a crime:
If you just disappear and stop helping - without organizing for anyone/anything to replace you - then that’s a crime.

Have a wonderful anniversary, Gracie! Rude of APS to forget about you. Doesn't the worker do a calendar?

Barb, thank you for starting such an interesting thread! (In a way it's related to the "Why do people always push facilities?" thread -- seems as if facilities should be pushed sooner so that people don't find themselves in the position of being charged with abaondonment!)

Gracie, I.was going off on a different angle..

I wish you a wonderful anniversary & also glad you recheduled. Choose Life!

For what it's worth, no I don't think it is reasonable to be financially, emotionally or in any other way responsible for other adults because of a next of kin order.

Gracie,

Wishing you a very happy anniversary!

Break out the champagne! 🍾 🥂

Gracie, a very happy anniversary! I'm so glad you put them off!

One last thought before I sign off...Barb, the quote you posted from FindLaw.com, is very provacative. I do see my mother as a victim, one she has assumed for most of her life. When does that end? Only upon her death. I am not wishing that for her. I am only stating the facts. When people make bad choices their entire life and wait for others to bail them out, and they do (I did) it ruins lives. I can only say that I am so thankful for all the advice this forum has provided me. I made a very bad mistake, I should not have to pay the penalty with my life and that of my DH. We did our part. We married, stayed married, raised 5 wonderful children, worked our entire lives and never asked our parents for a dime...by the way, if we did, they would have said -- NO! work it out yourselves. Why...should I be responsible for my mother?? It really makes no sense. Our system is broken.

Hi Beatty,
I like your table...however, I technically an not a senior yet:) I will be turning 57 at the end of this month. I am still an active adult:) Who is supposed to give up my entire life, quit my job and stay at home fulltime to take care of dementia ++++ many other illnesses....for what???? Not going to do it. Sorry. Not my job.