I am trans (Female to Male) and wear "male clothing" such as ties. I am pressured to keep in contact with my grandfather. I am pressured to meet with him, but the family tells me to take off my ties. Grandpa is of sound mind. My parents and uncle say that the ties will upset him. I haven't seen or spoken to him in years, since knowing that I transitioned would hurt his feelings and I didn't want to cause him pain. My compromise was not to hurt his feelings but also not to hurt my feelings by pretending to be someone I am not. My parents can make something up for why I can't speak to grandpa, like I lost my phone or am out of the country. I don't waive it in anyone's face, but I don't change my style of dress for anyone. I am considerate, so if it's an event at a nice restaurant, I will wear "male" dress pants rather than "male" jeans, which I wear normally, but I will not wear a dress or skirt just to please someone's emotions. Because grandpa grew up in a conservative environment, my therapist said he is unable to understand. But, I think, it's more "unwilling." Regardless of how he grew up, if he wants to accept me, he will. If he wants to learn about LGBTQ culture, he can. It's a choice. But age and background aren't excuses for intolerance. But I know he won't accept it and seeing me in a tie will make him upset. Calling me by my male name will make him upset. So I just stay away. A therapist told me that I am being selfish and inflexible by refusing to take off my tie. My therapist said if I truly love someone, like a family member, I will take off my tie in an act of compassion. My therapist said I am lacking in compassion. Is the therapist right or is the therapist a homophobe?
I don't know how I could talk to grandpa, because then I'd have to say I am interested in "female" things, like dance and cooking, and not the truth, which is tools and sports ("male" interests). I can't introduce him to the girl I am dating and would have to lie. If he asks me what I am reading, I'd have to lie, as I mostly read stuff about trans issues. So I am worried that if I start lying, I'll forget and eventually get caught. I understand lying at work to protect myself, but you shouldn't have to lie to family.
But I have one question for you? Why do you think your grandfather will be intolerant of your transition?
My ex transitioned after the marriage ended, M-F. His Catholic dad was able to accept the change and Bill was in his 80's and from the jokes he told you would never have expected him to accept the change.
Some of the people here have quit their jobs, or continue to work while providing care; others have had to hire in home caregivers, and struggle to work with "strangers" in the home. Others are faced with financial challenges. A lot of compromise is made.
Personally, I think that if you want to see this gentleman badly enough, you can make some compromises (others will probably disagree with me). Just avoid the sensitive topics. And BTW, I'm female and I'm interested in tools; I wish I'd spent more time learning from my father.
I don't think specific issues are or have to be gender specific. Consider some of the French and high end clothing manufacturers. Some are men designing for women. I don't buy their designs b/c they're outrageously priced. I could care less about their gender.
Some of the best chefs are male.
I think you may be overrating the gender identity of various interests. Why don't you encourage GF to lead the conversation into issues he likes (fishing? hunting)?
If he's old enough to have survived the Great Depression and/or WWII, or Vietnam, ask him questions about his life then, how it's different now, how the US and people are different, but avoid the latter topics if he served and was wounded, or lost friends. Depending on which service and where someone served makes a big difference in how they respond to discussions.
With Halloween coming up, ask him how they celebrated. My father told me of pranks they pulled, which couldn't be done now (there hopefully aren't many outhouses that frisky youth can tip over or move). Ask him about skating on a local pond if there was one. Ask about living w/o heat or electricity. Be creative.
I think the idea of gender specifics (other than physical issues) is being raised to a level which makes it a problem by virtue of its dominance in conversation.
are your FOO part of some weird conservative religious community, because I can't imagine any circumstance where any of the thing you detailed as problematic would ever even come up let alone cause an issue. If someone asked me what I was reading I wouldn't have any problem just shrugging and saying "nothing you'd be interested in". Women wear pants all the time (I've been know to shop the men's department myself for better prices), and I haven't been in a dress for years and years. Lots of cisgender women are interested in sports and tools and hate cooking and dancing. I can't see how any of that is a flashing neon sign that you are trans. You shouldn't have to lie, but you don't need to be militant about things either - life is all about compromise.
My DH has a brother who has a trans child who transitioned (male to female) while my MIL was starting to descend into dementia; she had emergency open heart surgery and died about 3 weeks later.
I can recall sitting with her in the rehab/nh as she watched videos of all of her grandchildren give her good wishes and "get better Nana" messages. The trans thing didn't faze her at all. She knew about it, her son had explained it to her.
She loved all of her grandchildren without judgement of any kind.
In the same vein, family told MY mom, after her dementia had started, that one of her nephews had come out (diffwrent issue, I know). My mom, as conservative a Catholic as they come said to me "I've changed. I don't want the Church to change, but I've changed. I don't think being gay is wrong".
I think you can be true to yourself and visit your grandpa as your authentic self, especially if he is, as you say, in his right mind. My answer might be different if he were deep into dementia.
Visit your grandfather* and be yourself. Unless you're really very young, by which I mean - let's say - fifteen or under, you don't need to be told by your family how to dress, what to read, or which pursuits to follow. I hope you also don't need to be instructed in how to speak courteously and considerately even to someone who doesn't offer you his heartfelt approval.
Having said that. You no more need to wear a tie than a male transitioning to female needs to wear false eyelashes. Men can't take an interest in dance and cookery? - what nonsense. Neither do you have to give your grandfather a list of recommended reading for trans people - what's wrong with asking him instead if he's enjoyed any books recently, and sharing that with him? If he insists on using your original female name, tell him you'd rather he didn't call you anything.
I think, on balance, at the moment, you need to decide whether you will only accept and value your grandfather if the old dog learns a heck of a lot of new tricks. Is wokeness the only quality you care about in people?
It tends to be forgotten in today's bad-tempered debate that LGBTQ issues were not invented this century. If your grandfather has lived to a ripe old age, then trust me he's met many, many people who were not of fixed gender. He will cope. Be kind, be courteous, be truthful.
Your therapist is a *therapist*?
* if you want to. If in fact you don't want to see your grandfather, you can skip the whole of the above. Just say no.
Your therapist is right. Would it really endanger your identity if you wore jeans and a T-shirt and kept your sex life private for a visit? Who even goes there with a family member?
You want to be accepted but you don't feel like you have to reciprocate? Life is full of compromises and you can't ask anyone to accept you as you are if you aren't willing to do the same. Even if it is uncomfortable.
Is it the wearing of a scrap of fabric in which the OP feels most comfortable? Or is it the prospect of answering honestly when grandpa asks him what he's reading lately? Is it being called by his name?
For that matter, which of these actions constitutes putting his sex life on display in front of family (to the degree that it would necessitate saying "who even goes there with family?")? Maybe I skipped over a pertinent line.
(Sorry to the OP. Seems like maybe this isn't the best forum for the discussion you seek. But maybe it's too soon to say. I hope you get some answers from people who've lived your experience and understand.)
Really? Your therapist talked to your grandfather? Or is just prejudging him based on stereotypes? Frankly, it sounds like you are, too. How could you talk to your grandfather? How about like a person you are interested in. Instead of scripting all sorts of topics about *you*, ask about him.
Right now, from what you said, you are rejecting your grandfather based on your fear of him rejecting you. Can you get past that? Can you take the risk to restore the relationship while you and he still have the time? Yes, you might get hurt. Maybe badly. But maybe you will have a loving relationship back. Maybe grandpa makes comments you think are inappropriate. Can you smile and make one just as inappropriate in return? Maybe you can just be grandparent/grandchild together, humans with a common bond, rather than objects who need to be defined and educated. How about trying a phone call before a visit? Or at least a letter? You know him, I don’t - do you even want to see him?
BTW, just as a measure of things, I found your comments on what comprises “female” things a bit offensive. I am a female who has always preferred tools and trucks to dresses and dancing. I worked in many typically ‘male’ jobs. Half my closet is men’s clothing because I find them more to my taste than women’s clothing. Try to give everyone a chance. Good luck. I hope it turns out happy for you.
There is also this: even the most intolerant, homophobic person has been known to change their viewpoints when it's someone THEY love who comes out, transitions or what have you. It's a very different mindset to vilify all "those kind of people" when they are all anonymous strangers; much different to condemn a beloved family member.
And I know you don't want to hear this, but I'm going to say it anyway: to accuse your therapist of being a homophone because you have a difference of opinion (wearing a tie? Really?) is absolutely ludicrous! Is every disagreement you have with someone in your life going to boil down to accusing that person of being a homophobe? Because to immediately jump to that conclusion does a disservice to everyone who HAS been a legitimate victim of homophobia.
If you don't want to visit grandpa, then don't visit him. But if you think that it's something that you will regret in the future, then make the effort. Grandpa might very well surprise you.
I think there is too much worry about a tie. I don't think you have to wear one and I just find that issue a bit extreme. Otherwise you should dress as you wish.
It is not clear to me if your grandfather's mental acuity is such that he remembers you well. If he does and you feel his love can accept you as you are then meet with him. If he is very confused generally and the whole situation would cause him difficulty then leave things as they are.
I realize in a perfect world this would not be the case but I think we have to understand that there are generations that know very little of your world and that coupled with age might be more difficult and best to accept that.
Whatever you decide I hope you find peace with that decision.
My husband hasn’t worn a tie since we married 20 years ago, even for funerals. It’s become normal for men to skip the tie. What point are you really trying to make here?
How do you feel about saying no or disappointing that person/persons?
I used to dress pretty out-there in my teens.. but would tone it down for Grandparents & would do smart casual for a job interview. I certainly get being comfortable in your clothing choices. That it can be how you express yourself & be part of your identity.
I just figure my clothes are just what I wear - I am still me underneath, regardless of an outer layer of fabric.
Don't overthink it. Wear a tie. Or not. Wear a tie INSIDE your shirt or as a belt. A fellow student last week wore knee high rainbow socks with men's style summer shorts. Looked great.
You have every right to protect yourself physically, emotionally, mentally.
If you feel that by visiting it will be painful or dangerous (mentally, emotionally) for you then do not visit.
I may be off base but I think you might want to seek out a different therapist. For a therapist to say that you are inflexible, selfish, lacking in compassion I think is inexcusable. Your therapist may not be a homophobe but seems to be lacking an understanding of the abuse that family members have caused you. Would the therapist advise any one of their patients to visit an abuser? Does not matter the age, sex or gender identification of the patient or the abuser.
My imagination may have taken me to reality tv shows and I apologize if I have it all wrong or if my ignorance of other communities comes across as disrespectful.
So you have been raised to revere GP as the head of your rigid conservative family where men wear ties and women dresses and sexual roles and obligations are clearly defined.
The tie represents to you being a man as much as a dress represents being a woman.
Grandma has become the enforcer (along with uncle who is her right arm) when either sex deviates too far from the mandated and traditional code of conduct. Assuming here she uses abuse on the “children” and shunning on the adults to instill her teachings. Grandpa appears to have a softer approach and uses bribes instead of violence to maintain the status quo.
Your presence is wanted at a meeting but only if you abstain from what would be seen as your attention seeking cross dressing which is abhorrent to the code…in other words. Don’t wear a tie.
The therapist, apparently from or of the same conservative background, has encouraged you to attend the meeting which is to lead to becoming a caregiver sans tie, coexist with the abusers, be willing to LIE if not in deed, then by omission.
You, smelling a rat, say you will consider attending but only as yourself, in your chosen identity represented by the tie. To not wear the tie might give the household the wrong impression and dilute your intention of living your own life as you see fit.
The therapist appears to be playing on your life long instilled respect and familial love for your grandpa to change your mind. The therapist seems to be under the influence of the same code.
questions.
The choice of this therapist….is he chosen and paid for by the family? Is he routinely used to talk around the malcontents where the beatings aren’t quiet as effective as hoped for? Is the therapist going to get a bonus if you attend the meeting?
Will your parents be leaned on to cut you off if you don’t conform? Is the uncle the heir apparent once GP is gone?
Are you a student and/or are you gainfully employed within the community?
How old are these generations? Are your parents in their 40s?
You may not agree with their methods but you seem to respect your family. Would you have the same expectations of your girlfriend as your family had of you as a woman?
Is your girlfriend from your community, does she understand your background? Is your Girlfriend also trans?
I don’t think I’ll ever look at a tie the same way again.
EDIT
I see you have answered many of my questions so I edited my post.
I hate to say this but your problem is with your dad. He is asking you to perform to him what is woman’s work. Where does your mother enter in? Is it the custom in your family for unmarried daughters to be farmed out to family members in need? I think I’d start wearing a tie too.
Please consider a “real” therapist that will work with you and your dad.
In terms of my girlfriend, no, I would never expect that from her. The family knows about the trans stuff. They've known since I was a kid because of the way I dressed and the roles and kid's games I liked to play. This is nothing new. It's nothing that's been known since pre-school. I don't talk about my dating life with my family. That is private. But I can't change my outward appearance, such as my men's haircut. I don't own any women's clothing anymore, such as a dress or skirt.
I've been on the forum a lot of years and I have seen this accusation spiral into a sh*t storm of hate filled comments, if you don't believe the story then you don't have to play, just move along. For me I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt so long as any OP is willing continue the dialogue and to to engage in a respectful manner.
Who continues contact with a paid therapist that tells you it is okay for a grown man to physically attack a preteen female for playing with the boys? Who even wonders if they should visit someone that instigated that kind of action?
Yeah, I'll post what I want, sorry, not sorry.
No, you shouldn't have to live a lie and pretend to be someone you're not. You have nothing to be ashamed of and someone my age, who is a progressive and social liberal from the bluest state in the Union would totally accept you for the person you are.
An elderly man from a conservative back round isn't able to. So, it comes down to this question.
How much do you love your grandfather and family? Do you love them enough to leave the menswear at home to attend a special family function your grandfather will be at?
You don't have to pretend to be someone else. You don't have to be a provocateur either when your grandfather is involved.
My best friend is gay Latino man. My late father was a homophobic racist. Yet he liked him very much. Know why? Because he doesn't fit the negative stereotypes put on Puerto Rican people and gays. In other words, he keeps the the flame low on both. Now, my father knew he is both. It wasn't an issue because nobody made it one. My friend is not the kind of guy who waits for someone to offend him. Or the person that has to be the social activist in every situation regardless of the occasion or whether or not they will cause harm and ruin it.
Now, nobody is saying you have to put on an evening gown and a tiara when interacting with your grandfather. I'm sure no one expects you to either. You can leave the tie and menswear at home though. You can dress plainly in unisex clothing around him.
It's odd to me that your therapist wants you to have compassion and you consider the therapist to possibly be a 'homophobe', yet you want to flaunt your sexuality in grandpa's face without 'lies' and expect him to embrace it wholeheartedly. Why should everyone be expected to embrace YOUR lifestyle while you aren't expected to show compassion for theirs? Respect is a two-way street; realize that and your life may get a bit easier.
Ditch the tie and go visit grandpa, it's just that simple. Leave the g/f home, talk about neutral subjects such as your childhood and HIS hobbies and HIS life b/c who doesn't like to talk about their own life, after all? You're making a big deal out of your sexual orientation and how you identify when you should be putting all that aside and just visiting with grandpa now. No, you can't possibly 'take care of him', but you sure CAN visit with him periodically, and that's that. I am a woman who identifies as a woman and I can tell you 100% that I don't talk to my elderly mother about cooking, dancing, baking or fashion. We mostly just talk about HER and her aches and pains, her friends that get her aggravated, and what's going on in HER life. My life issues never enter the discussion b/c my mother has no interest in my life at all. She just checks to see if I've gained weight; that's her main focus in life: appearance. If I haven't gained 100lbs or shaved my head, it's all okay.
If you go visit grandpa and the discussion turns ugly, invent a reason why you have to suddenly leave and then do so. You're not being asked to move in with him, just to go visit. Leave all the trans issues at home and go visit the man you've known all your life who loves you, the person you are and always have been, deep inside. That's really where the human connection lies.
Good luck.
Get away from your family's assumptions and rigidty and especially from their expectation that you become granddad's caregiver.
Healthy families donn't act this way.
My original suggestions remain. Stop trying to create narratives as if you are defining your grandfather to be either the person your ‘therapist’ imagines, or the person you hope to define and educate. You either accept grandpa as is, and find a way to enjoy the contact human-to-human without ideological expectations, or you communicate by phone or letter to keep a relationship and contact but maintain a distance. Or you step away.
If the other relatives you describe, and their expectations of you as a regular care worker, rather than a visitor, are real, those are the folks you need to create some distance from. If you really want to see your grandpa, based on your comments and added info, it sounds like seeing him alone, with no others there - possibly without them even knowing about it - may be what would be best to aim for. Again, I wish you the best and hope it ultimately turns out happy for you however you go forward.
I've seen MANy straight women wear ties as a fashion accessory and don't think twice about it. I don't think any of this is about ties at all.
I have 2 gay nephews--both my sister's boys are gay. One came out kind of quietly in college, and the other did it 'loudly' in high school, which could have been a real problem as high schoolers are not the most compassionate. To my knowledge, there was ZERO backlash. this kid is totally comfortable in his own skin. In our family, it was a complete non issue. We just love them. End of discussion.
they are respectful that my 91 yo mom wouldn't accept this and they have not told her, and that was their choice. they RESPECt that this elderly woman is pretty clueless and there is zero chance it would even get through her fuzzy brain. It might or might not be an issue for her, nobody knows.
I can't believe your family would expect you to be granddad's CG--no matter what your sexual identity it. you obviously don't have a good backstory with him or Grandma, so if I were you, I'd just not see them , or be prepared to walk out the door if you are offended too much to hang around for a visit. Don't start a fight and don't get involved in one. Walk away.
I get why you are so anxious about this--but there's no need to do so. If you are old enough to make the decision to transition, they you are an adult making your own decisions. If Grandpa wants a relationship with you as you are, then great. If not, Ok, his loss.
I don't feel that you should conform to any family member's criteria. BE WHO YOU ARE !! AND BE PROUD OF THAT !! :-)
And if they are living in some backwards way of thinking, then it's their loss. I wouldn't modify myself for that. They need to look beyond surface and only see you for who you are inside - beautiful qualities. Maybe they need to focus more and change themselves instead.
I've spent my life having my family and some extended family critiquing the guys I dated..what I wear..what I say..what I do, etc...and I'm in fashion, and they were more critical than anyone I could imagine - on every little thing....and it effected me - so looking back, I regret ever taking in anything they said to even matter - so in hearing the enormity of what you've had to go through, my heart really goes out to you because it must have been incredibly difficult.
If they cannot accept you on your terms then too bad on them. They need to spend time educating themselves...and learning what tolerance, acceptance, understanding really is - and broaden their mindset. There are numerous books they can read to become more enlightened...and maybe that's a first step. In my opinion, you don't need to change a thing...the change should happen with Them!
And in reading a later message of yours, you said that your dad wants you to show "respect and loyalty" to the family by doing elder care giving. Oh my gosh...they need to show You equal respect - for who you are - it goes both ways. In my opinion, I would step back and not put yourself in an uncomfortable or hurtful situation....and I would put the onus on your family members - let them educate themselves and accept and love the person that you are. They are expecting a lot from you with nothing in return.
Wishing you all the very best and continued strength!
Does there always have to be a sermon though? Sometimes people can leave the "educating" of others at home along with the sexual identity. This is true when dealing with elderly people. Especially ones who are political or religious conservatives.
I find that most elderly people came from times where most people simply did not discuss certain things like sexuality, sexual identity, or really anything involving sex including pregnancy which was something that was kept much concealed and private. Just look at maternity clothes from the 1950's as proof of this. Some things were private and kept that way. Today people are private about nothing. It's appropriate to openly discuss anything. Giving intimate and private details about one's life to anyone and everyone is commonplace now. It wasn't in generations past with people who are now elderly. These past generations also understood the value of discretion. It being the greater part of valor after all and there are times and situations where there's no need to "educate" anyone.
It should be a hard NO from Caregiverblues to the family on becoming a caregiver. If they don't want to take that on then they absolutely should not take it on.
If taking off your tie s so infuriating to them, then may I suggest that further measures such as hormone therapy won't persuade them nor can you explain it to them. You only read trans stuff so I assume you think Abigail Shrier is some sort of devil, but yeah, transitioning all these young females who might have been goth or anorexic or cutters in pretrans times isn't really helping them.
It's their right.
They don't have to be demonstrative to you. I mean at best this is a situation where you go to thanksgiving at your consent.
If you cannot handle it, then do not go..