Daughters of narcissistic mothers. What are the effects?

Hey there Dawn 36: Sounds like you are in endurance mode. Read Don Miguel Ruiz: "The Four Agreements". Don't take anything personally. It's ok to be sad for someone who "doesn't get it" but you need to realize your life is worthwhile; and you don't ever have to explain anything or justify your opinions and tastes. Do your best; and continue to be 'you'. You do not need anyone's permission to be yourself. In the words of Oscar Wilde "Be yourself...everyone else is taken."

In my 40's & only recently discovered my Mother being a narcissist. Always knew something was wrong, just not what exactly. She stays with me for the time being. I've blocked a lot out from when younger. Her & my father had rocky relationship at times & she always blamed him. I've had issues in my life & thought it was caused by my father. Realizing now it's been her all along. Me being people pleasing through my life, issues in intimate relations, etc. Glad at least now I realize & start healing. I read there's no need to confront someone like this, it is pointless. I now see the manipulation, guilt trips, & all other things she uses & does. I was the bad one growing up, my sibling the golden child. I was quiet, & a good kid...but I always got put down or beat. Some famous sayings I heard out of the mouth of a narcissist: I brought you into this world, I can take you out. When I say jump, you say how high. Cursed at, threaten. Used threats & fear raising me. Now I realize she expects others to make her happy. She always says she has nothing to do-she does but makes excuses why she can't do them. Like she wants undivided attention, which she never will get. Even a care home couldn't do that. Reminds me of how a queen would act in the old ages, needing a personal servant. I give her basic need, make sure she is ok. Then stay out of the way. Tried having more conversation, but she's always complaining, miserable, or if she see's I'm in a good mood & happy-she will say something to bring me down, put me down. I know it won't be long until she'll be NH bound. I'll be glad to have my life back & free.

Mom is 91. Her neighbors, (when she had her own place 5 years ago) informed me she had narcissistic tendencies. (One, a deputy and one an elder-care nurse.) We always felt something was wrong somewhere, but we knew she loved us and was trying her best. She was severely abused as a child. Wish I had known all this before I married: I married a man just like my Mom. AND: I thought he was normal; because the way he acted was what I WAS USED TO. 22 years of marriage later, I divorced to save my life. Patience only holds out for so long. Mom lives with me, and I am sole caregiver. Or as she call me "The Warden". I just pray. Alot. Even though it's a rough road, she never knew why she acted out; didn't get help when it would have mattered. There's no way to modify her behavior anymore. I just pray she finds peace.

Top personality traits of adult daughters of narcissistic mother

I compare the effects of my mother 'ways' (over the years of acculation) as a sort of brainwashing... Actually, after she moved by me, she said I called her 'mom' too much... I said "what do you want me to call you?... RC? (her initials)... " And, she said "yes" ... as if she is embarrased by the fact that her daughter calls her mom in person... I told her I only wish I had a daughter to call me "mom"... (nothing... NOTHING phases her... and, it still continues to this day)... When this first incurred some years ago, I thought maybe it was just because she wanted a form of independence around her...an 'identiy'... but, I don't that's the case... do you?... (we caregiver's/daughter's try to analyze things to make sense for the positive... But really... can we ever?)

If her mind and mouth are intact I think all you can do is ensure she has the outside help she needs and stay the heck away from her. I have scars on my head where Mommie Dearest knocked me around and put me in a hospital when I was about 6. I learned to avoid her from a very early age but could never shake her, even moving to another country, by phone and in person she followed constantly, like a bad smell. For an NM it is all about control and dominance. We're trained to accept it as the norm from a very young age and we're tormented as adults when by rights we should tell them to shove it.

She's been in the NH over a year now, broke a hip in the spring and had another stroke a few months ago which seems to have knocked the stuffing out of her. Now unable to sit up or stand, slurred speech and unable to even write her name, she's mostly bed ridden, her Parkinsons is a lot worse and her dementia is extreme.

She's been unable to dial the phone for a long time and for a while now if I call her I can't understand her. I'm the only one who calls or visits and, when she had a lucid moment or two, she agreed to have her phone cut off, which I did. On visiting her yesterday she was convinced it was my phone that was cut off and how would the NH reach me. It took a long time to get her to understand.

The NH calls me for every little thing - 4 calls late Christmas eve alone - and I was becoming so anxious dreading the phone ringing I've turned the ringer off so that any call goes to voice mail. If she tries to get out of bed (again) and falls (again) and is carted off to hospital (again) I won't immediately be bombarded with phone calls and feel the need to rush out on icy, snowy, pitch black country roads in the middle of the night. At her age and with her issues another bad fall may well be the end of her and there's nothing I can do but sit in some hospital waiting room all night ... been there, done that so very many times.

She also wanted to know my full address but I would only give her the village name. In her demented state I don't want her telling staff exactly where I live and making up stories so I end up with the cops on my doorstep - she did that once 20 years ago when she was perfectly sane ... it was just a control thing.

How will I feel when she dies? Nothing more than I feel now, somehow sorry for her that as an A1 NM she ruined her life and that of anyone who had the misfortune to cross her path. I don't think she's ever been happy in her entire life and I hope she finds some peace on the other side.

She wants her ashes scattered in a large public park where she used to live, at a spot where my father's ashes are scattered and those of some of her beloved dogs. I'll have a bench and tree planted there and donate some money to animal rescue in memory of them all.

With a hip replacement I pretty much hibernate in winter and I'm spending my home time planning on improvements to the homestead (wee cottage and 2 acres) and getting out and about to rebuild my life, which ended 5 years ago.

Hello Everyone,
Well it's been a year and I am so happy to have created this site for so many to unload and have an outlet. When I first wrote this blog I was curious and very distraught emotionally. I wanted to see if I was the only one who had a NM. Apparently I am not. I read many of your comments, stories and it amazes me how prevalent this deli ma is.
Here is the update of my situation with "Mommy Dearest". In order to understand this, you must go back to my blog and read the beginning.
After Mom left in Jan. 2013 I did not speak to her for 8 months. I deleted all calls. Slowly I recovered and began to melt. I had many Ocean view dialogues with myself. What does that mean? Almost every weekend I would go to the Ocean sit by the shore and write in my Books. I have been writing since I was 18 years old. During this time I began to reflect and ask myself how I would feel if she died. I guess my empathy goes much further than hers.
I started to take her calls. I was cool and factual. She did not understand why I did not talk to her. I reminded her and she said she did not remember. How convenient. The calls became more frequent, she was reeling me in. She never failed to end a call with crying and stating how lonely and scared she was that she would die and nobody would know she was dead. I reminded her that she has driven most people away.
In November 2013 I made a decision to leave my job in California because I was 5 years away from my children and grandchildren and I decided to return to Chicago. I officially returned Dec.14th, 2013 but I did not tell my Mother. I communicated via cell phone. As far as she was concerned I was in California.
Than on Dec.30th on her Birthday I went to her house and surprised her. She was shocked and delighted. I told her I was in town and I might stay.
All goes well for about a week and than the demon in her starts. She has not changed. She is still nasty as can be, but I have taken a different stance. I do not let her antics affect (misspelled my title word) me any longer. When she starts, I immediately tell her that I am not putting up with her nastiness and I will be leaving if she doesn't stop. It grinds her that I have this power. She has been recently told by the Doctor that she has Emphysema, due to her smoking.
The following day after she has been told that she has the disease, she lashed out at the Doctor stating that he poked around her body and did not do anything. I reminded her that the Doctor told her that she has Emphysema and she damaged her lungs permanently and it's not a pretty picture when the end comes. She just sat there dumbfounded.
I know my Mother wants me to live with her and be around to take care of her, but I will avoid that with a 10 foot pole. She has a Nurse and a cleaning Lady offered by the State. The Doctor has stated that she can not live by herself. So, I will seek out a Lawyer and get information as to what I should do. My Mother's mind is still in tact, although there are signs that she is forgetting a bit. I will wait and observe how she is doing. I am waiting for her to be more docile so I can deal with her better. The time will come, I have to be patient.
There are so many other incidences, to many to write about but I think everyone knows that this is not a cake walk for me. As awful as this sounds believe it or not I looked up how long does a person live when they have been diagnosed with Emphysema. I need to know the process, I need to know what am I in for. By the way she also has a Heart condition due to the stress on her breathing. Plus she has many other health issues. But her mind and mouth is still working, nasty as ever. She chews everyone out. Everyone from the Doctors Receptionist to the Cashier at the Grocery store. Nobody is immune. Some times I stand there and observe her and shake my head. This is a person who has been born like this and quit frankly she just is who she is. I on the other hand want to help her on a minor scale for I have to protect myself from her abusive behavior. And the most important fact is this, how will I be affected once she is dead. Will I be relieved or guilt ridden for not doing more than I could have.
I am going to visit her today and each time I do, she greets me with a sourpuss. Now isn't this special folks. LOL
As the drama continues I will keep all of you posted.
Best to you all,
Midwest


And to the last comment from anonymous203640, please stick to the topic, this blog is not for political, economical or media views, even though you may feel it does.
Question to you: Since your mother passed you said "Fortunately", so I can assume you are relieved? Correct?

Finding this site helps remove the isolation felt from having endured a predatory 'mother' that was text book narcissistic.Fortunately she passed ,the toxicity she infused into everything escalating to epic proportions until the end. In the process of defusing her effects by educating myself on this disorder and learning to call things by their proper names........a very disturbing parallel was revealed:The self deified corporate dominance manipulating politics,economics and media is suffering from this disorder yet being rewarded and bowed down to instead of being treated and it's toxic,expansive gluttony negated . The fact that companies are now people and people are reduced to verb status[consumers] mirrors the crazy making bizarro world my mother tried to impose. How can we deal with this-The biggest. baddest mother of them all?!

In every post here I see my mother - the nastiness, manipulation, the lies and that it's family who bears the brunt of it while, to outsiders, well that's a whole different picture. I lived 200km away from her with my own home and career but she refused to move close to me because "I like it here" (she was depressed, lonely and her life revolved around shopping) and "I have so many friends" (Not - she'd alienated the few she had over the years). The company I worked for at the time (which I loathed) was in financial trouble and they'd got rid of the lawyer & CFO I worked for so I knew it was only a matter of time. After a lifetime career as an exec legal assistant & law clerk there were a lot of openings and I was just biding my time and looking around. The day they told me they were letting me go they were nonplussed by my expression of happiness lol.

My mother, unable to manage alone, begged me to come stay with her and, in a weak moment, I agreed, put my home up for sale and prepared to move. Three weeks later I was offered a much better job with more money and closer to home but I made the move anyway into four years of pure hell. In time I discovered that my NM had been telling anyone who'd listen that I'd lost my job and she "saved" me! I've gradually discovered more awful lies and, until I eventually set them straight, people believed the lies. She would rage at me all the time about the most trivial things but once her rage subsided it became evident that she'd heard of someone getting something nice or going on a trip and she was just insanely jealous.

She'd lived in that house for 12 years and not spent a penny on maintenance or upgrades such that it was really shabby and she refused to let anyone in. The woman next door, a recently retired single school teacher who kept to herself, she always referred to as "Old Fancy Pants". It irked me so much one day I had it out with her. In her view this woman should have offered to help her years ago but didn't. Over the years she was seen by neighbours dressed to the nines, walking her dog, going out in her car. When I pointed out she sure didn't look like she needed help her response was that "she should have offered because I'm old". The neighbour was diagnosed with breast cancer and I popped a note in her mailbox to let me know if I could help. Along with friends and relatives, I drove her to the treatment centre 3 or 4 times and of course that caused my NM to go right off her rocker because she wasn't the centre of attention.

The neighbour eventually passed away and I, along with several of the neighbours, attended her funeral. My mother refused to go "Just tell them I'm not feeling well".

I came to Canada from the UK in 75 with a job, 2 suitcases, $100 and a roof over my head for a week. A few years later she uprooted my poor father, who was leaving family behind, and came here as well. I worked 2 jobs for some years to become established and bought my first tiny house in 88. Of course it was sneered at "what a dump", as was every home I've had over the years. If I had a boyfriend I got "He's just after MY money", i.e. I was worthless and no-one could ever want me for myself.

These are just a few examples. I could go on for hours. She's been in a NH for the past year, broke a hip in May and has been in a wheelchair ever since. A week ago she had a stroke and is now deemed palliative. I currently live in a small house on 2 acres in the country, 15 mins from the NH. I've been struggling with why I feel absolutely nothing but looking back at over 60 years of hell from the NM I've come to the conclusion that there's no reason I should feel anything at all. I've decided to visit just once a week and concentrate on rebuilding my life.

Amen SA - you have described my experience very well. all the games, manipulation and abuse. I knew from a few early age too that something was seriously wrong and it wasn't with me.- (((((((((hugs))))))))

Emjo, that list describes my mother perfectly. God, I've always known something was seriously wrong with her, but it's only recently that I've learned the name of this absolute twilight zone of a mental disorder. It's like my version of reality, and my mom's version of 'reality' were as far apart as the earth and stars. There were times that what came out of her mouth was so out of touch with what really was that sometimes I wondered if it wasn't me that was nuts... For example, I had a friend over one day, my mom was bitching about something...and the next day I asked her why she had to spew all that crap in front of Robyn, and she completely denied doing any such thing. She never said anything of the sort. It hadn't happened. At all. All I could do was....stare... I had no idea at all how in the world to react to her... I couldn't quite believe what was coming out of her mouth, but there it was.... I was just.... absolutely confused... I actually asked my friend if she had heard my mom say what she did, and she said yes, of course... God, even as a kid I knew my mom was bonkers... It's almost impossible to explain a narcissist to anyone who has never dealt with people that are so far out of touch with reality that life becomes a very uncertain, scary place... In my mom's own eyes, she was the absolute epitome of perfection. She did no wrong, ever. She owned no wrong doing. Ever. She never apologized for a thing, why would she, she did no wrong.. She felt not one iota of remorse for any beating or shitty thing she said. Ever. If I hadn't been/done/said **whatever**, it never would have happened, and it was all my fault. I 'made' her do it. Therefore, she's exonerated of all responsibility, and she can keep looking in her mirror...notice I say 'her' mirror, not the 'true' mirror.....there's a difference... No narcissist wants to look at themselves. No narcissist wants blame...at all, not a single crumb...because they can't stand even that much opposition, their egos are so, so fragile... The phrase 'Choose your battles' has absolutely no meaning to a narcissist. Everything, every little piddly ass thing, was, HAD to be, a freaking battle. A small, minor issue that nobody else would think of, would be cause for absolute war. For example, one day my mom wanted me to wash the windows outside. So, I took the glass cleaner and a long brush, and went at it. Well, something was wrong. I wasn't doing something right. I felt my blood pressure creeping sky ward at that moment. I went in the house, and she wanted me to wash the window with something different, and not use that brush... I told her to wash the windows herself if she didn't like the way I was doing it. After all, if you want something done right.... and she went off. She was shrieking like a banshee....over the fact that I liked my window cleaner better... And that was everything I did, or tried to do... She would follow me around, pointing out endless petty little things that I wasn't doing the 'right' way, day in and day out... I had enough of that shit as a kid and started telling her to get bent. I wasn't allowed to do my own homework. She took over, put all the answers down, and that was that. I didn't have to do a thing. And I'd seethe and do a slow simmer... I didn't need, or want, her so called 'help'. Then she'd drill into my head that if it wasn't for HER, I wouldn't have made that good grade, dumb ass that I was... To the last day that she could speak I heard about what a lousy bitch I was, never 'appreciating' her 'help'. Yeah. Sure. She completely and totally dominated every single thing. Every conversation. She could not handle the slightest opposition. She valued only people that told her exactly what she wanted to hear, when she wanted to hear it, all day, every time, without fail. That's all she wanted to hear. She couldn't handle the slightest criticism at all, or even the slightest disagreement with her views. She would become absolutely unhinged if you said the 'wrong' damn thing... Dealing with her has been a constant, never ending war. It's not that you haven't tried holding up the peace flag, it's that a narcissist has no freaking capability for mercy. They don't freaking know when to quit, literally. They will hammer you day in and day out, week after week, month after month, to get what they want from those around them, especially family. They have a tendency to wear a beautiful mask in public. Nobody could ever know what was really lurking under there, the blank swirling craziness of a mind that is nothing but a relentless machine designed and driven by only one goal....absolute and total self satisfaction, by any means necessary. Psychological warfare is a narcissists are of expertise. Verbal and physical abuse are common weapons. Yeah, weapons, because with a narcissist, it's always war. And if you bleed, if you break, if you show weakness, any weakness, under the intense POWER these types will try and weld over you, you're a goner. It takes overcoming some major fear to stand up to a narcissist, because they've been mentally programming you for a long kind, brain washing you if you like, to believe that you really do OWE them something, you really do have to bow down at every single command, every single time, or else you are **insert negativity here** and you DESERVE the mental and psychological, and sometimes physical torture, they're about to dish out, yes indeed... It's a lie. Nobody deserves their shit. If you want to break free from a lifetime of mental bondage, you best be prepared to stand against the devil himself, because that's what you'll be facing, trying to get free. Your 'whoever' will not let you go easily, and will use every single trick in the book to keep you in chains, and keep you believing lies, which keep you groveling and hoping for something you will never, ever have....and when the narcissist senses danger, senses you're about to walk the hell away for good, they're own instincts of self preservation kick in and they show you....their human side.... CLICK! Just like flipping a switch. They're so nice all of a sudden, so reasonable almost. . So innocent. So friendly. Just a brief glimpse of what you've been longing for.... wishing for... hoping for. Peace. Kindness. Respect. Value. Love.. It's a lie. There is none of that. It's all just another calculated move in the game of the narcissist. When people start seeing these types for what they really are, it's really easy all of a sudden to stand the hell up. A narcissist will always be a narcissist, to the day they die. Don't buy into the narcissist lie. This is how I've perceived life with a narcissist. It ain't no joy ride. If you want free of them, you better get your own arsenal of self protection together, and get out the big guns, because you're about to go to war. If you're weak in the face of a narcissist, they literally can, and will happily, rule you forever... If you own their bullshit, you'll live their bullshit all of your days, till you die... I am free of those chains. Thank the One.

I'm struggling with the negativity thing, myself. Each time I hear news from anyone, the first thing I think is what is wrong with it. I lecture my kids on everything bad. However, I've been trying very hard to be thankful for what I have instead of thinking about all the bad stuff. The more positive your internal thoughts are, the more positive the space around you is. I'm drawing positive things toward me instead of shunting them away with negativity. It's working, but very slowly.

My daughter and I attend CODA (CoDependancy) meetings. It helps, but the best thing to do is look at any given situation, decide if it will hurt you or make you feel bad to help another, and, if it does, then politely decline to help. Even feeling bad is a reason NOT to help. Now, I'm doing that, but I have to deal with the guilt that follows.

Yes, I probably have some narcissistic tendencies. After all, that was the "Mom" model I had. Both from Gram and Ma. I did probably try to parentalize my kids. I had a lot of issues while they were young, including alcohol and an alcoholic hubby. (Both of us quit years ago, and a lot changed.) So, since I cannot turn back time, I try to talk to my kids about what a narcissist is, what co-dependency is, and how it's better to think positive, be self aware of how we act and react. It's helped all of us as a family. My daughter and I are good friends at this point. My son is a joy to be around. My hubby is a pain, but he's also my main support and always wipes away my tears. He may never get out of his bed, but then I always know where he is. lol thinking positively again.

If I were you, I'd go to a CoDA meeting. There's usually a group or two in every city. Whatever you do, I wish you luck.

Lisa

Don't get me wrong. I have a past, an ugly one. I have memories. But that ugly little voice that's still in a lot of your heads in this thread, whispering to you what a no good shit you are, has been banished in me. Is it GONE completely? Oh no. It's still there? Oh yeah, a whisper now and then.

I'm on the lookout for it, that negative voice that's mom's, 24/7, and will be for the rest of my life. I came out of those flames, and I came out at peace, because now I rule me, I am who I want to be but never could be. I decide whether or not I'm 'good' or 'bad', no body else. I decide if I'm going to have a good day, or a bad day, nobody is going to make my days bad, ever again.

Once you gain that mentality, that knowledge that utter freedom that you are NOT DEFINED by a narcissists words, you are NOT those hideous things that person said, you will NOT allow those things to rule you, own you, or define you, when you REJECT and EJECT that shit, when you finally decide that you're better than that and can find it within you to FORGIVE that poor, misguided, pathetic, SICK in the head, sap that tortured you, then you'll know PEACE. Just like care giving is a long, hard road, so is recovering from a narcissist. It can be done. It should be done. Don't own someone else's shit like it's your own. Throw it back where it belongs. On THEM.

Np. I just hope you start feeling better very soon. God, care giving + narcissism. Lovely.

I've dealt with my mom, the Grand Narcissist, for 48 years. I've written down some ugly crap about it, about growing up as an only child with that, and some of the raw, ugly emotions the whole thing brought out of me...and created in me. Yeah, created. I wasn't born part demon, I was made part demon, I had to become part demon, literally, to...survive mentally intact, to survive period, and not end up in some rubber room in a psyche ward, twitching and gibbering away to yourself in a corner. Yeah, it can be that bad. A narcissist is like some kind of evil magician, and their type of power can be so clever, so subtle to almost be invisible, or they can be in your face, pounding you bloody. What's it gonna be today? You never know. Welcome to my world. I've been living it with my narcissistic mom since probably before I knew I was living it. If I ever sound like some kind of know it all when I give you strong, intense answers about how to handle these types, I apologize ahead of time, but I am my own so called expert, because how I handled it worked for me, how I beat the effects of an entire life with one of the Queen Bitches. I came out ahead. I'm at peace. PEACE, people. I don't have all that whacked out shit in my system, poisoning, killing me, anymore, that mess that my own mother put there. .

Anyway, stop owning your mothers/brothers/aunts/uncles/grandparents/friends/boyfriends/whoevers, bullshit. That's the first step to beating this, people, imo. Maybe you don't know it, but you've been programmed, like a robot, to get shit on. That programming in your mind is still there. It's still working. You'll have to work every single day of your life to shut that silent, deadly voice down and learn to recognize it, and SILENCE it by saying NO. You will never be free until you learn, some way, some how, that your 'whoevers', if they're evil, if they've done nothing but harm, are NOT YOU, and that YOU are just fine the way you are, thanks. Unless and until you know that down to your marrow, know beyond all doubt, that you are worthy of respect, YOU won't ever respect you, and neither will anybody else. That's why I'm always harping that you have to GRAB life, TAKE it BACK. It will not come to you. Those utter losers that are narcissists are not YOU. Wake up call....You aren't a bad person because 'whoever' said you were. Oh, they couldn't be pleased and you thought you were lacking? LOSE IT. Unless and until you do, you're like a rat in a trap, forever and ever stuck in mental chains. No. That is not acceptable. Break those chains or your 'whoever' will rule you and control you till the day you die. You want that? I damn sure didn't. For me, chains no longer exist. And thank the One for it.

Thanks so much standingupalone. you are dead right on everything you said here. This expecting thank you is so my mom and I always got irritated cause she always got pissed when she sent birthday or Christmas money and no thank you. I would tell her if you only send it for a thank you-stop sending it. My grown son is one that don't say thank you-so guess what? He don't get anything ever again from her. And even this is what I told her to do, I am hurt cause this is my son that being ignored and that is a double standard. I strive everyday at the age of 65 to overcome these demons that are created by ME. One can only blame their NM for so long and not doing anything but feel sorry for myself doesn't help. I the approval with giving relates to people I want to be friends with. I am starting to stop doing that. However when it comes to my family-I do it because of my love and I enjoy doing this. The big positive in all this-I have three brothers and one sister that love me very much. They understand and appreciated everything I did for mom. In fact. they are convinced she is much better now because all I did for her. Good Bless to you and everyone and have a great weekend

Grandma, wake up and grab life by the balls. All of this talk of 'duty' and 'pleasing others' and 'can't say no' is the legacy...and the LIE...your mom has left you with. You can not, will not, ever please everyone, ever. Never, ever. You're STILL looking for the approval, love, acceptance, whatever, that you didn't get from your mother. STOP IT. You have to love YOURSELF first, and the only way to do that is to do some major soul searching. And practice saying NO.

Did you help your mom when the chips were down? Yes? That's more than a lot of people would do. That right there is something positive about YOU, who you are, to be proud of. Letting people shit on you isn't noble, it doesn't earn you points for 'good' behavior. That kind of behavior isn't good, it's self destructive. Before you ever try and interact with the world again, FIND YOUR LIMITS. Ask yourself, before you do a damn thing for others, what your motive is. Is your motive their admiration? Is your motive their approval? If it's anything like that, you're giving for the WRONG reasons. People give because that's all they want...to GIVE, to be KIND...and when you know you're doing it for the right reasons, you're at PEACE. I took care of my mom because I'm GOOD like that. I didn't require a thank you to know it. I hope you get to that peaceful place yourself. If I ever do any kindness for someone, it's because I'm kind, and that's all I need to ever know to be good with who I am.

I was at the grocery store months ago. An old man was ahead of me in line, obviously very poor. He couldn't pay for all of his food, and was starting to put some of it back. I paid for it for him. Did I want thanks? No. I wanted that old man to eat that roast chicken that night, that's all. lol :)

wow its been a long time since I posted here and on another thread that I started last year about this same topic. No doubt I have a NM. I am the oldest of five and always felt this obligation to always be there for both parents. My father was saint-kept her somewhat in check but sadly passed away 5 years ago. I moved away many years ago but never cut myself out of their lives. when my dad died, I felt it was my duty to make sure she was being taken care of. Even though the other four lived closer, I was the only one that would take the time to try and help her. It backfired-she resented my help-accused of butting into her life and bossing her around. All I did was find out why she was having so many stomach problems-made sure she was taking her meds like she should etc. Bottom line she ended up in a nursing home twice for rehab. My baby brother at that point, cause he is lives closer than the rest-told her it was time she went into a beautiful assisted living place. Because he told her-there was no protest-she went knowing that the facility was no smoking. She was only there several hours when she decided she hated it. And she bitched everyday thereafter and then started smoking in her room. she was fined twice and mutual agreement she found another place to live. Not assisted living but a duplex. This brings us up to right now and the changes she has made. You see the five kids made it very plain to her if she didn't stop running other family members down and being so negative all the time-she would see less and less of them. I was already at the point done with her. I forgot to mention that I moved back to be closer to help out. I regretted that and since moved away once again. Okay I am blabbling on here-sorry. I want to be happy that she finally seems to be a better person. But I resent it. The whole year and a half I was close-she was the worst she had ever been not just to me but everyone. So of course, I am thinking, was it me that made her that way? I just know the other shoe is going to drop any day now but I have not had any complaints from anyone for a year now. Did the assisted living wake her up? Did the fact that her three boys refused to help her move wake her up? We talk on the phone. Nothing heavy-she seems to always be in a good mood and rarely complains. But now I have a problem with ME. I am so negative-I cant erase the hurt she caused me-I cant so no to anyone and thus get taken advantage of. I have no patience for anyone or anything. I did go to therapy but since I am very familiar with therapy-was not happy with this therapist. I cant afford most of them so I need to find one that accepts medicare and there are not that many out there. I just reread this whole post and now worry maybe my kids resent something I did in their lives-not really close to my son anymore and my daughter well lets say we sure don't connect like we did before she was married-she has been happily married for 12 years and I guess I just need to be happy for that. Not sure where I go from here. I am thinking maybe some spiritual guidance. Exactly after all these years what is my purpose in life. And oh one other thing-I am constantly going out of my way to try and please others-usually with a gift or a kind letter or card and then feel empty if I don't get a thank you or some signs of gratitude. Makes me think I am also a narisstic person. Feeling weary today!

Palm, I am so sorry that you had one of these narcissistic morons in your life, too. Thank GOD you are a fighter, too. You freaking have to be, and if you're not, you best learn.

I am no longer angry at my mother, or my past with her. It's over. My mom isn't the same person anymore, and thank God for that. ALZ took all that away, and I've done my forgiving. Does that mean I CAN'T and DON'T feel anger when I read these stories? No. I am capable of extreme anger and rage ...towards takers, abusers, losers, predators, narcissistic types, etc, etc, etc. Let me get even a WHIFF of that from anyone, even a HINT that someone is that type, let me feel even ONE iota of manipulation, and I immediately turn into the devil. Simple as that. One thing I've learned from good ol' mom back in the day is how to STAND UP for myself, and that will be with me till the day I die. I can be the nicest, most understanding and giving person...until I catch wind of bad behavior. Then I'll eject you out of my world so fast you'll think I fell of the face of the planet for all I'll ever have for you again. There is no compromise there, there are no excuses. Show me you're one of the scum on this planet, I don't give two shits if you rot, and I wouldn't spit on you if your ass was on fire. (That's 'you' in general, no matter who it is) That's how strongly I feel about these types of people. I dealt with one. I'll never deal with another. And DNA be damned. If someone does nothing but make your life an utter misery, get them the hell out of your world. Period. I told my youngest son who's 21 and had been giving me the 'silent treatments', that if he EVER pulled that shit again, if he wasn't man enough and didn't have the damn balls to TALK to me about what was wrong, and the only thing he could do was give me silence when I didn't even know what I had done wrong, if anything, he could get the hell out of my house and my life. And I meant every damn word of it. Again, DNA be damned. He hasn't pulled that crap since. He knows what's up if he does. Simple as that. You've got to be made of granite sometimes, especially when dealing with bad behavior. I just won't have it, I will NOT tolerate it, not ever again in this life. Neither should anyone else the way I see it.

StandingAlone, your posts are good for you because you have a lot of anger. I truly understand where that anger is coming from.

My dad was the verbal abuser. You could never disagree with him or have an opinion that differed from his. If you did, you were an idiot. I had a very strong will, as you do, and fought him often. I grew up in the sixties and seventies in Alabama. My dad was a racist. He would say the most awful things about black people and I would question him about his logic. He would get furious. Can you imagine raising your child like this. He didn't like anyone except his own kind. Why? Lord only knows, he was no prize.

He also had a problem with women having any rights. I was raised to be submissive and be a housewife. To "do for" and never expect anything for myself.

Fortunately for me, like you, I was a fighter. I married an educated man. God Forbid a Damn Yankee!!!! Educated my three daughters and moved 10 hours away. But the damage was done.

When he became ill and died, I realized I had absolutely no feelings left for him. So sad. But over time I have had to see the entire picture of emotional abuse, total lack of involvement of my mother. She is actually as narcissistic as dad but in a different way. I had a lot of anger and it still comes out. But through education and time I have become very indifferent to my mom and brother. That is all you can do with narcissistic people. Just build a wall and don't let them have a key to the gate.

There are two options when dealing with a narcissist...you BREAK and bow down, or you FIGHT. Which will it be for YOU? You must choose, because those are literally the only options you've got.

I had one of those bitches. How did I deal? I fought her like a caged tiger every chance I got. Even as a kid that wasn't old enough to know what was up, I didn't respect her one iota, or her behavior, I thought she was a nut job even then. I absolutely refused to bowed down to her utter stupidity, and you want to talk about RAGE? Oh sure, it meant beatings, verbal abuse, her throwing and smashing things, you name it. And? I still wouldn't bend, even as a child. I loathed and detested her with everything I had, and I gave as good as I got in spades. My attitude as a kid to her verbal and physical abuse? FUCK YOU. I paid for that royally, but hell would have frozen before I would break like she obviously wanted me to do. I told a neighbor once that the One let her adopt me, this hellion, because he knew I was the only one that wouldn't crack like an egg under that kind of never ending, intense pressure. I stayed true to ME, period, at all costs. And the costs were high.

I wrote this on another thread:

A narcissists reality, and true reality, are always two different things. It's like growing up with a parent who claims all the walls are painted black, demands and insists that everyone in the house agrees they're black, but all YOU see are white walls, and if you actually say that, all the demons in the narcissists soul are unleashed to pound you into submission, and if that takes a day, or a year, or a lifetime, they never run out of energy. When I say I fought for my life every minute of every day, I mean it literally. How I ever found it within me to find compassion and pity for my mom to be her caregiver is beyond me...all I know is that the One was around, no doubt about it in my mind. ALZ was a BLESSING in the end...the lady in the NH now that I call 'mom' is someone I don't mind calling mom. The harpy I knew has been dead for quite awhile. Thank God and good riddance. There are no tears in me, or love, for that bitch.

Piss on a narcissist, and DNA be damned. They're poison. Get them out of your world, one way or another, come hell or high water, and FIGHT for your life...if you're WEAK with a narcissist, you will be crushed and all the spirit and life leeched right out of you. YOU have the power to overcome the narcissist...they just don't want you to know it...but I do.

I hear of all of you loud and clear. I'm one of you. I finally "snapped to" and started standing up to mom and she hated me all the more for it so much so she disowned me and let her paid caregiver be her new daughter. Told me I was no longer "needed" in her life. She's been dead over two years and I'm still waiting to miss her. I don't. I was in my late 50s and still feared her. I was never allowed in the clique she and my sister had, never ever! I suffered a lot as an adult but I thank heaven above that I finally broke the shackles of a narcissistic mother. I echo Christina (my sis, the good one :-)!). I'm not going to be consumed with self doubt. What years I have left will be lived as a tribute to my precious, loving father. The one who loved me, no matter what I did and who valued my very existence.
My mother made my sister into a spineless, gutless mess. Never in a million years would I ever want to be her.

So late I discovered the problem growing up was the narcissism of my grandmother, mother and older sister, all of whom I was terrified and was excluded from their clique. Thank you, God.
However, my defiance and rebel attitude has helped me survive and even accomplish goals in spite of their attempts to hold me back, discourage my ambitions, and urge endless " therapy", from which I got NO HELP. The meds I took off and on never helped me, either. I can't count the psychologists I visited to find out "what was wrong with me." They never figured it out, but they took my money. One even tried to convince me that my father MUST have molested me. That's where I threw down the gauntlet, and gave up therapy.
When I started caregiving for my Mother, simultaneously discovered the true nature of my wimpy sister, my life flashed before me and I processed it. To survive the mental torture for 60 years and finally feel sane and strong is a redemption that feels euphoric. NEVER again will I doubt myself, or anything about myself, my values, intelligence or gifts. What a great feeling:) but the sadness of missed opportunities and the years of doubting myself ( or believing them who supposedly " loved me" ) still pisses me off once in awhile. Lol!

bookluvr- Calling me at work was never an option for my mother. I told her never to call me at work unless she is in the Hospital or some other kind of Emergency. And the few times she called I handled it very business like by simply stating "Hello, may I help you?" her answer was on the other line: "you didn't answer your cell phone" I reply: " I'm with a client now, I will call you back, thank you, Goodbye."
She did that only couple times and never again. And the times that she did call me at work I responded by telling her that she may NOT call me at work, unless it's an Emergency and then I explained to her what an Emergency was in my book.This is not to say that she will not try again in the future, but I think she knows that I don't engage in any kind of conversation, nor do I call her. This is so sad because normally I would drop anything I was doing and respond to a call because I have the kind of job that allows me to receive personal calls, but my mother doesn't know I have a choide, she only knows that I am in an office and I deal with clients.
So, if I were you I would call everyone that calls you and tell them not to call you, unless there is an Emergency and the big question is, what is an Emergency, well, 1-your Father is in the Hospital
2-your Father is dead
3-the house is on fire
4-give all the reason that you feel that could have waited.
Tell everyone that you are working and you do not need your brain to be frazzled while making a living. Most professionals and people who have common sense will respect your request. If not and as soon as they open their mouth and it sounds like it could have waited say: "Thank you for calling, but I'm with a client/supervisor/project/or some other issue related to your job, I will get in touch with you later, Thank you for calling, Goodbye." BOOM, hang up. A few times like that and you will train everyone and they will know not to call you at work, unless it's an Emergency.
And take away the phone book your Father of all your numbers.
OOhhh, Plan B, I just came up with another solution. Post a fake number on your Refrigerator Door "My New Work Number" to some other Business were you have to push the telephone buttons a million times to get to a live person and tell the most important people who you truly like to hear from if there is an Emergency and tell them that you need privacy and your Father is abusing your work time. Now if you feel that is to much, go back to plan A. LOL
You have to figure out something that makes sense and you can live with.
Have a great day.

LisaT, I am sorry for you and understand your situation. You sound as if you are on the right track. Good luck to you.

After reading through this, and doing a bit more research, I'm willing to say that my ma was definitely narcissistic. I was the one responsible for her emotional well-being from toddler age on. My earliest memory of her is of her cutting her hand while doing dishes (it was a deep cut, and bled a lot. she got stitches when dad came home and took her to hosp) and she laid on the couch crying. I went into the kitchen, cleaned up the blood, because Ma was a neat freak then, and proceeded to do the dishes to make her feel better. I think I was three or four. Bleeding and in pain or not, I, as a mom myself, would never have allowed my young child into the kitchen to clean the blood and glass. I would have hugged my child, explained what happened, and that daddy would be home soon to help mommy. A hug would have been a better way to allow the child power over Mom's pain. She didn't even know I was there, I think. Parentalizing the child is what it's called, I believe. I was the one who talked to her about both her divorces, and gave her advice... age 7 and 18. I was told by my first therapist when I was about 13 to stop mothering my mother. that helped a lot. (sarcasm anyone?) Then I stopped going, can't remember why.

The other side of the coin was her ignoring my needs completely. I embarrassed her mostly. I wasn't pretty. I was chubby. I wore glasses. I hated dresses and wanted to be a boy for most of my childhood. She wanted a cute little daughter to dress up and show off. I was also a very, very angry kid. I still am, to some degree.

So basically, it hurt, because my needs were not important, I was shamed by her, and I had the worst self-image of any child. I became extremely co-dependent.

My little brother suffered the same as I did. He got more attention because he was the 'bad kid', and learned to be as narcissistic as she was. He and I have a not so good relationship, although we're civil.

Mom ignored me as an adult for years, until Gram died and Mom had no one with her. she went a little nuts, so I moved her closer to me. Then, because I couldn't take care of both her house and mine, I moved her into a nursing home. The behavior was exaggerated by this time, and I went crazy trying to be her mom, her mentor, her only friend, and still take care of my invalid hubby, and the rest of a large household. Co-dependency is no joke.

I see now the mistakes I made with my kids, and why things are the way they are. Why I'm a doormat. Why the world seems to be so negative to me. I need to address this, and help my kids understand the issue so they can also address it and end the cycle.

The thing is, I need to explore some more and figure out what is natural and good selfish kinds of behavior, and what is destructive. I need to figure out what boundaries to set and where it's okay to help others and ask for help, myself.

So, Midwest, how did you get your mom not to call you at work? I was able to do that with father for years. But now that he's going down the dementia lane fast, he's been giving people my work phone. I came home so angry and chewed him out. Unfortunately, I could see he had this puzzled look in his face. It didn't register. So, now, every person who calls for me at home,he will give them my work number - no privacy in an office that's the size of my father's livingroom! But...I'm curious how you got your mom not to call you at work.

I think my father is a narcissis. As I read all your posts, it sounds like him. We grew up with No Thoughts of our own. It was Always HIS way - no ifs ands or buts. Mom kept us outside the house or inside the bedroom so that us 12 kids (7 siblings and 4 cousins) so that we don't mess the spic-and-span house before father came home from work. We have had our famous yelling matches for years. I'm currently trying alternate ways of dealing with him because my cholesterol is shooting high (nope - not from food - but from STRESS.) Thanks. I was able to take some notes on this thread.

Update: May, 2013
It's been a few months and all quiet at the front. Mommy Dearest tries calling me, but I ignore her calls. I hate doing it because I have a need to be connected to my Family, but I might as well say: "What Family?" A Family that hurts you is not needed in ones life. Mothers Day came and she called me 2 times, I did not respond. I'm not ready to talk to her. I have never been like this, I'm totally cauterized. I have to protect myself emotionally. I can't afford to be sucked in to her web and then when I have shared my life, she attacks when she is ready to pounce on me. Nope, not doing it. And yet did I say I hate it. Yep, I do because I'm social and this is so out of my character to reject a person. It's almost as if I enjoy punishing her and perhaps I am, because Lord only knows she hurt me badly.
I'm sure the phone is going to ring sometime next week and it's almost as if I'm anticipating the dreadful call, because I have to decide whether to pick it up or not. While this moment is coming, I'm mentally occupied. When will I be free?!?
I have read all your comments and it is amazing how many of us have suffered by these mean mothers.
I hope all you who read these treads that you can take away one thing and that is that you are not alone and there is a whole slew of people who go thru this nightmare of NM. To all of you, keep in mind, while you are wrestling with the EV, if it doesn't make any sense what they (Emotional Vampires) say about you........then it's not true.
It's beautiful in California........ :) And I bought myself a car. :) Yeah!

Thanks, midwest, for the insight. Even if my grandma didn't provide love, and that's hard for me to imagine, my mother had to know in her heart of hearts what she was doing wasn't right. Or else why did she present one side of herself to the world and another to her family, mainly me? She was never diagnosed but my kids and I truly believe she had dual personalities, among other things. Anyway, her behavior wasn't acceptable. I don't think she was unable to recognize, she just chose to say "this is me and I don't need to change". For whatever reason, she never liked me, I knew it as young as 4 yrs old, and she didn't like me the day she died. She disowned me for crying out loud. I kept hoping she was just angry and after a cooling off period, she'd call, write or send a smoke signal but she was done with me, period, end of story. I've had some serious disagreements with my kids, but we after we cooled off, sometimes it took a few months, but we worked it out.
You mentioned more men than women are narcissists. From my experience, I'd say that's true but none of them, were anywhere near as mean as my mother. They were wrapped up in themselves but they weren't hateful.
I like the mental vampire description! Think I'll borrow it, if you don't mind.

AlwaysMyDuty- Yes, the one thing I wished I was informed about sooner is the condition of what my mother really had. Narcissism to the fullest. We all have a little in us, but what we are seeing on this site is much more. I call them the mental vampires.
I read up a little about how does one get Narcissism to a point what we all are going through. Well, I read that it starts around 18 months old. If a child does not get the kind of nurturing from the mother, because the mother is the key person that a child sees, feels and observes. It can be a father too, it all depends who is taking charge at that time and who is with the child the most. But some how from 18 months if a child doesn't get the right attention, it becomes a seeker of attention, no matter what it takes. I child is uncivilized and it has to be taught right from wrong. Some people are just not meant to be parents, just because they have a vagina and testicles. Being a parent takes wisdom and most of us do not have a degree in parenthood. It's a one shot deal. Most who become a parent do it by their seat of their pants. And then there are some who do a fantastic job of raising a human being to be well rounded, but is only if they are all together. We all learn from experience and sometimes those people who are Narcissistic did not get the right start. But let's not excuse their behavior, because that's what this is, A Behavior. Bad behavior. And it's said that a Narcissist can modify, if they so choose. The key word is IF. But if they choose to say: I am who I am and take it or leave it, you know what you should do. Unfortunately, we all learn to late and sometimes decades go by when we finally learn, that these mental vampires are not going to change.
I too should have moved on a long time ago. But like all of us, we HOPE, for the NORMAL.