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You will never be free until you run far away or they die. Stick around and you will die before they do.
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Heart2Heart was so right when she wrote that it was pointless to tell a narcissist what they are. Narcissistic females don't have to be beauty-seekers or clothes horses. They are simply women who think they are on top of the heap and are worthy of service and adoration for no good reason. Typically they have butterflies and bluebirds flying about them when they talk about themselves. Those of us who know them know that even the crows would avoid them if truth were told.

It is hard to keep your wits about you when you live with a narcissist. That is because they have zero empathy with you. If they ever show caring, then watch out. They want something. RUN!

DDDuck, I wondered that since your sister is there, do you really need to be there? I would be tempted to look for a new place to rent and consider the rent the cost of keeping your sanity. There is a lot of anger and other craziness that comes in when dealing with narcissists.
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That's right DDD... So glad you realized the pattern to move on and away from it hurting you any longer. I (we) know it hurts... They probably don't realize how they really are... Very sad to say the least... Such life lost. You have a wonderful son and daughter-in-law... Live life to your fullest!
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This forum has been so very very helpful for me. I even printed out a very clear description. I moved in with my mother after my landlord sold the home I was living in. She was in need of assistance then and now even more so. My sister was already there. What I see now that I didnt see cause my eyes were wide shut is very painful and I find myself being very resentful. I will never have love from either of them and I have wasted my life trying to deserve that. Now I see them in a different light and I find it amazing how evil, jealousy and uglinesss perpetuates itself. My sister is just like my mother. My mother plays with my sanity I offten say is she serious. Its so funny how she flips the switch to a lie and concocts a story behind it. I get angry because of the years I spent questioning myself because I believed her. Thats a lot of damage there. My sister is the same way she does much of nothing for my mother. We just had a party which my son wanted to do for her 80th. I came across my sister seeming help to clean up. Im the one who did thorough cleaning buying cooking all my life and they both deny I have everdone anything. Again the sanity. So I am hands off now for my own sanity. So anyway while there goig through her bags she finds a table cloth and say she will use it on table for the event. well next day when my son comes, his wife made a beautiful cake my sister tells her oh I bought some things for the table. When I come back from replacing my two grills that were thrown out during a basement sweep I see these too table cloths and thats all she contributed to party. The cloths my mother found in her junk. So now I actually saw how she works. A lot of stuff was going over my head. I had such deep questions about what they would say and where it was coming from. Thanks to this forum I see things for what they are. Not everything of course. Now I just need to find a place to put these things in my head. Because I keep reliving past affronts and I dont have the option or never will have option to place certain wrongs in open or get admission of any wrong done to me. Everything that goes wrong is my fault. I mean everything. Right now I just need to keep my sanity not from the manipulation but from resentment and anger and bitternesss because I see and realize these ugliness been going on all my life and to see it clear is very painful.
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If you tell a narcissist they are a narcissist that's the last thing a narcissist will ever think they are. They will get angry and turn everything around on you. I've found out that you can't have a 'true' discussion with a narcissist.
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Was just notified about some more replies being posted and I'm amazed at how many of us are gathered here.
On Friday, I confronted my mother who has many narcissistic traits (and no matter what, any number of traits can negatively affect their child) about why I wasn't going to go with her to pay a bill. Told her that I knew she was just using it to corner me later for avoiding her for two weeks. Told her she's a narcissist. I had to start yelling at her because she's always yelled if I ever said no, tried to voice a different opinion, or acted "too selfish," and I wasn't going to let her this time. And she did start yelling. I told her everything I felt around her, her projection, her competing with everyone's feelings and invalidating them. As she was yelling at me and my stepdad, I could easily see through her. I didn't care about what happened to her in the past, I wasn't letting her use it to make us feel guilty for feeling angry, hurt, fed up towards her. Her sense of entitlement is warped. She talked to my stepdad later and she tried blaming everything I was feeling on him, me or anything else because she didn't like being the one a fault. She even tried pulling up a commercial website that listed narcissistic traits and ended up only pointing at a few, thinking that would validate her feelings. She denied my statement of doing a bunch of research on this, and I kept saying, "There are different types of narcissism, not just a generalized version." She has a lot of traits of Covert Narcissism. So, she continued to dismiss my feelings and my stepdad's, that we have no reason to feel the way we do. We've gotten to the point where discussing this with her is pointless, and he and I are moving out in a couple of months and I'm applying for jobs in the area. I realized I had been searching for emotional nurturing/validation whilst relying on her and her expectations. Once I realized that, I told myself, "I don't need to look for that from her anymore." As a kid, how did I know any of this? I wasn't consciously aware. Kids are selfish, and she formed me to feel incredibly guilty if there was ever the chance of inconveniencing somebody. On Friday, I was so tired, physically and emotionally. I was tired of being too anxious to sleep. I was tired of being scared and angry. We started to feel like we owed her too much for very little. We started to feel like her employees (when I read this in your previous entries, I thought, yep she act likes that too). Never a compromise.
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It's extremely sad when you know it wouldn't matter to them if you were here or not. As time goes by, you realize by watching their behavior with other 'strangers' and 'invisible' family 'members' that you're worth very little in there eyes... The little worth/value to them is how much you can do, do, do... for them.
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Ashlynne, that is wonderful insight. It is true. When a person decides that your purpose in life is to serve them, they don't consider what the effect may be on you. Today I am really subdued and depressed after yesterday. I'm on my way out the door to have lunch out and spend the afternoon away from her. Maybe it will pick me up some.

I think children who are raised and treated with love and respect from their parents are far wealthier than those raised in luxury by distant parents.
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Exactly Jessie... Cyndi is so 'lucky' her mother doesn't live with her. Distance yourself when possible... It's the only way to save your sanity (aside from this website)... I've been through just about everything with my mother in terms of catering to her... Like Jessie said, it's a no-win situation... I remember my youngest brother (who literally keeps 1000 miles away and rarely calls or comes over) said to me "you are not responsible for their happiness". Obviously, he feels no remorse for not involving himself with 'our' mother (or me). I hate to say it, but one of us gets stuck in these situations... Only one.
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I saw this this morning and it hit home:

"A narcissist doesn't want your love, they don't know what love is. They want your admiration and your obedience as a player in their fake make-believe world."
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There is no winning, so there's no point wrestling with things. When it comes to caregiving, the deck is stacked in favor of protecting the elder. Last night as I tried to go to sleep, I thought about the craziness of yesterday. Even though I was not the perpetrator, the neighbors probably saw me as a horrible daughter who would not help this sweet old lady. They didn't know the story behind the scenes, only what they saw and what she said to them. I thought about how we could be well meaning and kind, but still end up in trouble trying to say No.

Cyndi, if your mother doesn't need you to take care of her, I would keep contact casual -- like most grown daughters are with their mother. There doesn't seem to be much need to enmesh your lives, judging from what you wrote. Does she have any physical ailments or need for care?
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I don't know how I'll feel when it is over. I don't really know how I feel now. I know I look at a lot of discouragement each day. I know this is not the way it was supposed to be, but it never has been. I've never hoped that we would become closer, because that wasn't possible. I do feel a responsibility for her, because she has no one else to watch out for her. I wish she would make it more pleasant. I feel I'm being punished for a crime I didn't commit.
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This has altered my life in so many ways, especially as I am getting older (you?). I wonder how I'll be able to cope with all the 'memories' and emptiness of having someone so dependent on you, while they have 'maintained' to keep their 'distance' (after the madness is over). It's almost like being discarded... Like an animal rejecting their young.
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I do know what you mean. It was sad not to get love and respect as a child. I have to admit that as a senior adult I feel more like if you can't respect me, just leave me alone.
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Jessie... Sometimes, I really wonder exactly how much is really 'broken' (in their minds) with this kind of behavior. I think it's just the way my mother 'is' and you can't change them. It makes me sad to think that we will never have the one on one (respect) that I so long for...
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It is. It would be easier if they weren't so angry so much. It's hard to figure out what sets them off on days like today. I try to remember my mother's mind is broken. In a way that just adds to the helplessness I feel in trying to dog paddle through it all.
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This is what I'm talking about Jessie... It's so hard on you. My mother should be using a walker as her doctor instructed. It's been at least 3 years since she's gotten it and she uses it to pile up her books and stuff on in her bedroom. I told her I wouldn't take her out unless she uses here 4-prong cane (she refuses to use the Walker and hangs on to me)... and, she wants to throw it at me (with dirty looks darting at me). Tonight she said sarcastically, that I was 'texting' while not paying attention to her... I said I was paying bills so she could have all the comfort she was accustom to... She thinks I'm 'playing' on my pc like 'all the rest' in this 'new' generation of 'gadgets'... I get tired of answering to her... It's exhausting... Isn't it?!
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My mother has been mad at me all afternoon. She started out mad, telling me she could do it herself when I asked her if she needed help getting her rollator down the steps to go outside. She came back in a bit later and wanted me to move the front yard swing to the other side of the yard. The yard men and I had just moved it a couple of days ago because she was not happy where it was. This was after I moved it for her last month because she was not happy where it was. She got really mad that I wouldn't move it again and it was terrible. She ended up going outside and got someone to move it for her. Okay. It was embarrassing, but okay. I went ahead and cooked dinner. So dinner was ready, but a neighbor came to visit. They sat out on the swing for a while. That was fine. I left her a plate so she could reheat it when she came in. All this is not so easy, because she is diabetic and needs to keep her insulin and meals on schedule. Occasionally you have to change things, though. It was good for her to have a visitor.

She has continued to be angry tonight. I turned the thermostat up so she wouldn't get too cold. She came in and told me not to touch it again. Very angry. Then she came back into my room and ask me what had gotten into me this afternoon. I just answered honestly -- that sometimes I say No and it needs to be heard. She told me that she was tired of it.

I really do think that she needs an employee instead of a daughter. On days like this I feel like I'm being beat up and have no defenses. I can't yell back at her. She doesn't understand that everything is not my fault or that I have the right to say No to unreasonable requests. And I have the right not to have someone trying to bully me, slamming my doors, yelling at me, and talking to the neighbor about me. Sometimes I wish I had a video recording. I would call it "See, it's not me."

Just venting here. It seemed like a good place to talk about my day.
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... And then, there's the sarcasm...Do any of you get the sarcasm (from your mother... Or who you are caring for). My (other) problem is that I now don't like the person this has made of me... Sometimes, I think I going mad... like tonight,,, the no-win situations... certainly not good for mental or physical health.
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Hello to all my followers,
I'm amazed how this blog has taken off. So many of you have recognized that your dealing with a mental vampire and hopefully understand by reading my blog, "that its not your fault" you have a parent who simply is mentally unstable.
Currently, Im dealing with "mommy dearest" back in Chicago. If you read my blog from the beginning Jan. 8th, 2012 I have been dealing with her and her antics.
Its full blown war. She (89 years old) recently had 3 car accidents, 2 in one month, yes, she still is driving, I say she is a menace to society. The last accident both cars totaled. Her fault, not yielding the right of way, yet she tells everyone it was the other persons fault. Anyway, she wants to buy another car, I refuse to take her and last week she called one of our cousins trying to manipulate him to take her and help her buy a car. He refused. Thank god. But she was super mad at him, if you could see the steam coming out of her ears, you should know she was ready tho pop her cork. She tried to badmouth me to him, but he didn't buy it. Each time she tried to say something nasty about me, he countered and she was not liking it, in fact she kept saying to him, " you don't understand" and he said : "yes I do" and recommended counseling. I think if she could have slapped him, she would have. Well, needless to say, the visit was cut short and my cousin and I walked out together, spending time in the hall talking. Mind you this is a cousin, she admired and respected, but always talked behind his back, like she always does about everyone. When I returned after an hour, I didn't say a word. In fact I still haven't rubbed anything in her face. I figured let her think about it. I think she got a wake up call but rest assure you she will twist it. I'm waiting.
There was another incident 2 days later with her doctor. He gave her the riot because she smokes and takes many medications, including sleeping pills. Often I find her sleeping on the toilet or in her wheel chair, with a cigarette in her hand, burning her night gown and carpet. She smokes in her bedroom.
I spoke with the doctor privately before he saw her, so he knew what was going on. Again, if you could see the steam coming out of her ears, she blow a kettle. Lol
These 2 incidents have set her off tremendously. She has become more problematic and I'm again At my wits end. I called my local Hospital for assistance with my elderly mother. I'm now going tho take her on by getting an in house counseling, pretending it's for me. It will 2 weeks to make all this happen, with the insurance approval and all, but I need to do something, she is out of control. She even thru my food out of refrigerator on the kitchen floor, because she didn't like that I called her out on something. I no longer buy her bs, nor will I be manipulated and she can't stand it when she is wrong. I have to put my big girl pants on and handle this wicked old woman.
So my fellow followers, this is the latest and please keep reading and sharing......your not alone.
Big Hug to all,
Midwest, your blogger.
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Yes... Tooth... It's a no-win situation... The sooner we accept it the better off we'll be... Just remember, you're not alone here... (Big Hug). Try to do something fun for yourself at least once a week!
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Heart2Heart - I know. The worst thing about this is that even if you point it out to the narcissist, their abuse and behaviour, they won't accept it. My mother said she's been through enough counseling and that my stepdad needs it more. She won't go to counseling because then it's my fault I'm feeling this way, and how could I say that about her? "I did nothing wrong, you've hurt my feelings and now I'm going to make you feel bad by repeating the story of my sh^&* childhood so I'll win."
You can't make a compromise with a narcissist. You can't be right because then they're wrong. They have a very black and white view on the world and it unfortunately always comes back to them and their needs.
I hate the full use of my first name because she always yelled it but my nickname was always used when she was in a good mood.
4 days of being through emotional hell and I envy my friends who seem to have things figured out and have semi stable parents to support them. Just gotta make that first step.
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It's not only the most hurtful thing to be 'dismissed' by a mother like you're not as 'valuable', but to have them try and have you cater to there whims while your own life slips away is unaceptable. It kills me when Mother's Day rolls around and every mother is celebrated and treated with royalty and respect when many of them don't deserve it. Where is the justice? How could one not be permanently damaged by this in life?
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DDDuck - I can't believe it's only been 4 days since I answered this, it's felt like a week. It's been almost 2 weeks since I started suspecting who she really is and I've gone through the broken and depressed stage of finding out that all I've experienced from her was a manipulation, that I was just a projection for her shortcomings and insecurities. I realized I never had that emotional nurturing because I was taking care of hers. That's when I got to the angry stage, and I still am angry. I wrote everything I was feeling down in my notebook, everything about what she's done, how I felt such hatred for being manipulated the time I've been on this planet, not having a sense of self. I wrote how I scared I am of her and how everything that I am able to recall about her behaviour makes sense now. And I ended the 4 page venting with, "I deserve better. I deserve better than her need for the validation of her fragile ego." I do deserve better. You deserve better.
If you have a safe place to escape and someone trustworthy to confide in, that's your first step. I don't have one, never did and a college friend of mine told me that whenever I need to get out of the house, we'll hang out.
I definitely need counseling because she's manipulated me into being codependent on her and her emotional abuse.
Find a safe place. My NM used narcissism as defensive tactic when dealing with her narcissistic mother. NParents are very toxic. You have every right to be angry and you don't have to feel guilty about this.
I've gotten to the point where her dying, disappearing, or leaving would make me extremely happy. I don't feel guilty about it.
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Ive been reading old posts about Narcissistic parents and it is so helpful reading this forum. One discribed what I had summed up my life with my mother and sister perfectly. Although I see Im not alone it is still painful as I am still living this horror. I am almost crazy because I have been used up by both and now my mother really needs me whilst my sister is in denial and is so into herself she does even see my mother wasting away mentally and physically. They both blame me for every wrong in life and if I utter or repeat what they have done to me I am a lie. In fact my whole life of catering to their needs and covering them both my mother from a child and my sister when she deserted a 2 boys for a man. I want to let this all go because I am bitter and everytime another wrong is done by word or action it just triggers a whole bunch of bad mememories of betryal and pain. I pray and it keeps me sane but untill I am able to get professional help is there anyone else with pearls of wisdom on this subject.
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Toothless... Sounds like our mother's (same traits)...
It's a positive sign to us all that we finally recognize this narcissistic behavior, especially in our mother's. For me, I denied it for a long time (sometimes, I still do as I want to 'think' she's my sweet mom). But, if you don't, it's a vicious circle and we just hurt ourselves and destroy our lives. I know I have to distant myself more and more (mentally and physically). I often wondered how my youngest brother ever studied at home after I left and he said "I just closed the door to my bedroom" (so he could study). Narcissism is a deadly disease as far as I'm concerned... More so, for those around these kinds of people. Too bad it takes us so long to learn this and accept it. I wish you all the best in school and life.
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I did read that narcissists get worse as they get older and now that I look back on it when I was kid, she has gotten worse. She never apologizes for the fights she starts, or if she's hurt our feelings, and now I see that's what narcissists have a hard time doing. Something clicked when I had the irrational fear that I had some form of breast cancer because I found several skin abnormalities on my breasts and I told my stepdad first (live-in boyfriend, he's earned that title, especially after this happened) and he comforted me and reassured me with promises of going to see doctors soon. When he told my mom, she came up to me and dismissed it as just rashes because there was no history of breast cancer in the family. She threw anti-itch cream at me and didn't do what I thought a mother would do, was to comfort and reassure with hugs. I legitimately thought I was going to die and I felt that my emotions were completely dismissed. Before when she would ask why I avoided her and was irritable when I was around her, I didn't know what to say. "I can't stand being around you because everything you do and say is hypcritical?" Now, I wonder what I should say if she asks. Am I going to be manipulated again with her guilt and pulling out the victim card? I've taught myself to just stare blankly at her and take long, deep breaths when she starts yelling ("talking" or "lecturing") because I'm done crying in front of her and I'm done getting anxiety attacks because of her yelling.
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It took me until I was the age of 21 that I had anxiety my whole life. It was a month after I turned 22 that I concluded that my mother is a narcissist and that she is my major anxiety trigger. I'm still researching on how a narcissist is formed: genetics, childhood environment, or ?
She didn't have a healthy environment, her mother (which I'm starting to suspect that my grandmother is a narcissist) abused her verbally and physically, her father didn't want to see her or her siblings again when their mother took them away. She witnessed a murder at 25 that gave her PTSD.
I thought she behaved certain ways because she always backed it up with an, "I love you," or "I'm doing all this for you." I only noticed this when I began avoiding her and seperating her identity as a mother and looking at her as a person, a human being with a lot faults.
I dreaded running into her. Whenever she lectured me, (she says she doesn't yell, but she does) I would cry, due to my already raised anxiety.
She starts fights before every trip, holiday, and expects the "uninvolved" party to sympathize with her. But what really started my resentment was that she tries to use me to be the buffer between her and her live-in boyfriend after they fight. (I'm going to add that he doesn't like confrontation, and tries to have a calm discussion with her) I would become the messenger for her to repeat what she said to her boyfriend. I had to avoid her this last week, including Mother's Day because she was acting especially aggressive and entitled, so I could focus on studying for my finals.
I'm afraid that staying at home to attend college easier isn't going to work out any longer.

-Toothless
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When I checked off all o the character traits of a NPD mother, my mother fit it 100 percent. No surprise. I wasn't able to identify my situation until about a year ago and it explains A LOT. I suddenly understood why my mother would hide my accomplishments from relatives and friends. As she has gotten older, the problem has gotten worse. She'll says things to me like "My jobs were better than yours" (not true) or "my life was better than yours" (quite laughable and also not true.) She
will tell me "I do everything better than you." (Also, very, very, not true). My mother is bitter because, despite her best efforts to sabotage my life, she was not able to do so. Of course, I am damaged by her lack of love. Of course, I have had to go for counseling. Of course, I have had to struggle. But, I am still standing proud and strong and that bugs the H----l out of her. My sister is also very similar in nature, so I basically have decided to minimize my contact with them. Ultimately, I might shut them both out completely. They are toxic and unhealthy and I only want healthy people in my life. My advice to you is to be kind to yourself, find a new family of friends, and join NPD forums to vent and recover--because only people who have had a NPD parent can truly understand what phony people they are and how they had a special venom for you (for whatever reason, it doesn't really matter). My mother did not treat my brothers with the same scorn or my sister (who is as NDP to her daughter as my mother was to me), in the same nasty manner, so they will never understand or look at her in the same way.
Run, don't walk, and don't think you can change her. It will never happen.
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Narcissists don't change, and from what I've seen, they get worse, far worse, as they age. It would be like trying to move a mountain, to get a narcissist to change.
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