How do I enforce the no driving rule and the no guns rule?

I like the idea of dummy bullets. I will have to talk to someone who knows more about guns than I do, tho. It is a possibility. I don't believe I am in immediate danger, but with this disease, one never really knows. Thx for all the good ideas, prayers and caring. Means a lot to know that there are people who understand and care.

I like the "talk with the Doc before your husbands Doc appointment--even if you have to schedule an appointment alone, at least a week ahead of hubbies appointment.
Write a letter that can be inserted into his medical files, that line-items his behaviors--those you observe that show his confusion, anger outbursts; use words to tell the Doc how severe they have gotten in hte past, and so far; include if he is a war veteran--if he has a history of brain injuries, PTSD, etc. those are important for the Doctor to understand, and how those manifest in your husband.

Could try: get same lock device "boots" that police use to disable the cars, only to his car[s]....he can commit his anger at those, that he can see, hopefully instead of at you---police may even help you do that.
OTherwise, you will have to keep taking crucial parts [battery, starter, fuses, chunk of wiring, etc.] off his car[s], to prevent them working, and make sure he never gets ahold of your car keys!

Do you know how to safely handle the guns in the house? IF not, find someone who can:
--remove the bolts, cylinders, or other key working parts from his guns, so the guns are inoperable; make sure no active bullets are in any of the chambers.
Replace bullets with a couple boxes of "dummy rounds" --it will all have the appearance that things are as they usually are, but they just don't work.
==That way, he has a sense of having his guns there, that nothing has been messed with, but they cannot be used.
Just hide the parts that make them work--we had to do that with my uncle--worked fine--he was confused enough that he didn't pursue finding new guns or ways to fix the existing ones.
OTH, we also tried mixing up all his car keys--lots of cars--lots of keys, scrambled them all--yet he still managed to find keys that worked, & take a car out driving....we even tried calling the local PD, to have them stop him DUI, but they didn't feel it was necessary! Since we were only there for a couple weeks, that was about all we could do then.

Since you are dealing with the above issues, it might be a good idea to collect important papers, store them in a safer place, too.
....it is common for confused elders--especially angry ones, to do weird things with important papers & equipment--bash, burn, drown, rip, shred, bury, etc. make them inaccessible for proper use.
...just hide them where he cannot access or damage them!

Once the Doc has recorded that he cannot drive, & cannot own guns/have them in the house, and hubby also at some level fears people learning of his limitations, hubby cannot easily replace missing items.

If you are in a small town, you can also post notices at local stores that sell guns, and car parts, warning them to avoid selling to your husband. Gun vendors usually take these notices seriously--not so much the car parts places, unless they are people you know.
Likewise, Dept. of Licensing for motor vehicles--notify them, so he cannot walk in and renew or replace his license.
Though, he could still have an official ID card--which can be handy, if he's still lucid enough for other transactions that require picture ID.

BUT, if he is not rational enough to peacefully understand why no guns and no driving, he's not likely fit to handle financial affairs, either--
--which means you also need to put those in some order that you are in charge of, without needing him
--do you have a POA yet?
Anything set up yet to protect your position to handle finances, medical decisions, etc?
Area Agency on Aging can help direct you to helps handling those, too. .

You already fear his behaviors--that is a huge cue!
A person changed by dementias or Alzheimer's often vents their anger at whoever is handy--their caregiver.
IF he's at the point where your health & welfare are compromised,
the Doctor has some responsibility to recommend your spouse be placed immediately into an Alzheimer's unit, for instance.
The Doc needs to have that understanding, clearly communicated to him, in advance! Your fear that he could become angry & violent, is valid, & needs to be included in the Doc's assessments of your Husbands abilities to:
stay at home, operate a car or have guns in the house.

No amount of love or skills can help, caring for a loved one at home who has become too angry or violent; once that starts, it will usually get worse, depending on the person's other abilities..
At some point, it is just necessary to move the person into a care facility that can better take care of them. Often, that point is really blurred as to when it needs done.
It might be helpful if you started looking for places before hand, so you at least have some information about alternatives you might use...
Area Agency on Aging nearest you, can help, too. .

Medications to limit violence are not always appropriate, or do not work adequately.
Restraints have been restricted to very few cases, & very governed use--meds that effectively restrain someone, are included in those laws.

Having a safe space you can run to for safety from him, is a good idea, too.
Have means to get back into a barricaded home, if hubby locks you out.
Be able to call for help if you get locked out.
Have backup plans!

If you live in a rural area, having at least one gun that hubby does not know of, that you can use for necessary protection, could be a good thing; it needs to be kept in a locked place he cannot access
--which makes it harder for you to use, too, but, might help against invaders/wild animals, etc.

This transition is very hard to go through. You are doing great work, so far!
Just keep a few steps ahead, putting things in order.
You also have a valuable item already on your side: the Doctor who has recognized your husband's problems, and is willing to document them
--Lots of elders escape diagnosis, when they are too good at "showtiimers".

Many prayers for you! Please keep us posted how things go!

I would also call the doctor back and discuss this issue with him in private. You need to KNOW, not guess at what his motives are.

I hope when the Doctor says no more driving or guns that your husband will listen and respond appropriately. However, from what you've said about how your husband has reacted to other things like denying he needs to use grab bars in the shower and take his pills...he may deny in order to do what he wants, or not do what he doesn't want to do. It will depend on the value or importance of the driving and guns in his life and the need to stay in control. My mother, in her 80s and with early dementia was told she couldn't drive any longer after a minor, but avoidable accident. She actually dealt with that fine, because she still had transportation...my father could drive her around. However, she was stubborn about using a walker, eventhough she was having difficulty walking and had fallen several times. Her doctor told her, more than once, she needed to use a walker or cane. Family members told her several times, as well. But she refused and would make-up stories that supported her reasoning for not using a walker...such as people she knows that were actually injured or died because they used a walker. Reminding her that the doctor recommended she use one, didn't work either. She would deny that he did so. Or, say she didn't remember. She would go to great lengths to protect her choice to not use a walker or cane, to stay in control, even though she continued to fall and eventually broke an arm that never fully healed and just added to her mobility problems. The falling, she would always blame on something or someone else, but not herself. She had a deep, long time conclusion that only elderly or frail people use walkers, and she didn't want to be looked upon as a member of that club. She never did use a walker or cane.

So, most comments here have been focused on how to prevent your husband from getting angry at you. But, just as important or problematic is... will your husband heed his doctor's advise, and no longer have driving or guns in his life? He may very well not acknowledge what the doctor says or follow-though with his recommendations/orders. I would give your husband the opportunity to follow doctor's orders, but if he doesn't show any signs of doing so, then for his safety and others, including you, you must make sure the keys and guns are out of his reach. If I were you, I might remind him once what the doc said...but I would not become a nag about it, which would add to his anxiety. That's the first step. If it comes to you removing the keys/car and guns and he doesn't take it well or becomes violent, then your next step is to get out.

Please keep us informed of the situation and good luck to you.

Maybe the doctor didn't say anything about it out of concern for your safety once you left his/her office and were alone with your husband??? Actually I'm surprised the doctor had even considered saying anything. We run into these types of situations all the time, and we find very few doctors who are willing to step up to the plate to tell a patient they can no longer drive or have weapons in the home. Even when a doctor has told someone that, some people will ignore him/her and will drive without having a license.

A psychologist may not be able to do anything directly about the guns unless there's an imminent threat to someone's life....not a "maybe"...not a "high risk", but imminent. This could be your husband telling you he's going to kill you or someone else...or himself. He could then be taken in, involuntarily, for a psychiatric assessment. The mental health code is very specific about what can and can't be done under what conditions. Even if your husband refuses to go to the psychologist I think you should still go and get some support for yourself.

As someone mentioned, you may want to set a limit with your husband telling him you're not willing to put up with his anger outbursts being directed towards you anymore, and that you will leave if it continues. But, don't say it if you're not prepared to go...even if it's to a domestic violence shelter or to a friend's/family for a few days.

Scared, I'm sure you are disappointed that these issues weren't addressed by the doctor, who should have done it IMHO. I don't understand doctors at times. Surely the phychologist is going to do the job. If you weren't suffering from enough anxiety! Someone needs to "man up" and pronto to help you and your husband. I know I speak for most of us on AC when I say you need a support system and we hope you consider us for the job, even if we can't physically be there to do it. I'm wishing you peace.

PamelaSue, could very well be. I am going to wait and see what happens when we see the clinical psychologist he recommended, even if it's only for a couple of sessions because if Medicare won't pay for it, we can't go because we can't afford it.

I feel like the doctor copped out because HE didn't want to do it.

Dear Scared; It sounds like the doctor is worried about YOU, which WE all are. As others have pointed out, you are in an untenable, abusive situation and your best option right now is to leave and get somewhere safe.

Scared, There just isn't an easy answer for this one. I had to take Dad's car keys and I became the child from hell. It would have been easy to just give them back but my strength came from knowing I couldn't face a family that my father might hurt or worse because I couldn't muster the stress of him being mad at me. As far as the guns I'd remove the ammunition from the home and if it's for safety just the appearance of the gun would be a deterrent to a would be robber (there are always blanks) and if possible enlist the help of the police. I never thought of this until now but I wonder if you purchased a medical alert system for your phone (help I've fallen and I can't get up) if you would feel safer wearing a button you could push if he ever became violent. They could summon the police and if they supplied you with two necklaces he could have one thinking it was for his medical use. Just a wild thought. I along with others here will keep you in our prayers and God bless!

I am sorry you had all that stress today, but I can understand the doctor's decision. Do you have an appointment with a psychologist?

In a way you do have the ultimate power here. If he doesn't believe in psychologists and won't go, that is fine, but the alternative is to not live with you. If he wants to stay at home, he needs to do what you and his doctor determine is best for him.

Do keep us informed.

I am almost embarrassed to report that NOTHING was done today. The doctor said NOTHING to my husband about driving or the guns! After stressing myself out for the last 6 days, NOTHING was done! I left the doctor's office more stressed and confused than when I went in. when I was able to call the office, I left a msg for his asst to call me because I couldn't figure out what was happening. she did call me back and told me the doctor wants us to see a clinical psychologist because he saw how stressed I was (I was crying in the office because I was so tense.) My husband sat and said NOTHING the whole time. The doctor explained that he does have Parkinson's and he does have Alzheimer's and everything I am doing for him is to help him. I briefly had the chance to explain how my husband refuses to take his meds at night sometimes because he insists he already did take them. No amount of reasoning or physical proof changes his mind. He yells at me. I just leave the room. I can't deal with that verbal assault for no reason. I think this is why the doctor wants us to see the psychologist. I did tell him that I seriously doubted my husband would go because he doesn't believe in psychologists...or that anyone needs this kind of help...he thinks it's a sign of weakness, a "cop out" and a way for the doctor to make a bundle of money. (been down this road before years ago when I was going to a counselor because of some medical issues of my own). We'll see. In the meantime, I am treading water, walking on egg shells and hoping against hope that I can keep him from driving. Thank you all for caring and commenting. I will keep you posted as this situation continues to develop.

This may not help Scared, because it is a proactive approach and she needs immediate action. But I'd like to share my experience in hopes it will help someone.

My husband was diagnosed with Lewy Body Dementia four years ago, when he was 57. He was a delivery guy for most of his life and a wannabe cop (went to the academy twice, but didn't get hired). So, he loved driving and was hypervigilant regarding safety, i.e. needed to have a gun to protect us.

When he was diagnosed, I told him we needed to make sure he was safe to drive, because now that he had a diagnois of dementia, if he got in an accident it will be an issue, even if it wasn't his fault, and may not cover us, if it was his fault. The medical center we went to had equipment that could test him and he was cleared to drive, if he was familar with the area or if there wasn't a lot of traffic, i.e. our small town and on the interstate highway between cities (we live out west). Then I frequently asked him how he felt he was doing with his driving. One year in, HE DECIDED he couldn't do the interstate and later that year couldn't do our small town. What worried me was that there have been times he thought he had still been driving. When I reminded him that he had given it up, he didn't remember. So, I got keys that look like our car keys and put them on his ring. Key makers have blanks that they can make look like they work, but don't. That solved that problem, SO FAR.

The gun was a little more difficult. He has vivid night terrors, and has actually gotten out of bed fighting/punching someone who wasn't there. I told him that in such a state he might get the gun and shoot me by accident, but he swore that would never happen. So, I "accidently" left the box of bullets at my sisters when we were visiting. Yes he traveled with a gun and a lot of ammo. When he wanted to buy more, I admitted that I still had the quick loader, but I would COMPROMISE and allow it in the house if I was the only one who knew where it was, because it was my life on the line not just his, and we have an alarm system that would give us enough warning to load the gun. He still doesn't like this, but he doesn't have car keys that work so he can't go buy more, and he'll NEVER find the bullets.

Believe it or not, this was all accomplished in a courteous manner. Again, because I was proactive. When he was first diagnosed, he started being verbally abusive. I knew he was angry about the disease and gave him some time to adjust, but after a few times I had enough. I told him that I knew he was angry, but I didn't do this to him, and I was angry too, because the disease was affecting me too. He may have the disease, but I was having to deal with it too, but I was willing to stay and help him as long as he treated me with respect. Since then, if he gets cranky before it gets abusive, I immediately call him on it, and he appologizes. I do the same, when I get cranky.

I know that with dementia there may come a time when all bets are off. But I STRONGLY feel that, if you talk about these things and talk about it often, when they still have some sense it helps them accept things a LITTLE better. We have even had the discussion that there may come a day, when I can't take care of him at home. We'll see how that one goes over, when the time comes.

If you are this frightened, it won't be enough to get rid of the car and the guns. After you ask law enforcement to help get rid of both of those things, which you need to do for the safety of everyone living around your husband, you just need to leave. Drop all the responsibility into the laps of your sons who are refusing to help, and just walk away. There is no marriage where there is fear.

I'm thinking of you today, Scared. Check in with us when you get a chance. We care!

dear Scared my heart goes out to you... I know you are in a very tough position! Do you have a "church family"? Maybe one of the older gentleman could come and spend some time with your husband or take him out for coffee. I think that hiding keys and disabling the car may be your only choice as far as driving goes! I would encourage you to get a hold of your local police or sheriff's department for some help with the gun issue. Do you think if you contacted his sons they would come and take the guns??? Do you have a support group available to you? I would encourage you to get involved. Support is vital to get through this... take care and I will be praying for you also!!!

You are so right, Elizabeth. Thank you.

Given your husband's temper and not being cooperative, I would ask the doctor if there are pills which might lessen his emotional outburst. They are not nice for you and can't be doing him any good physically either. He needs to be able to peacefully co exist in your home. You should not be scared in your own home.

Elizabeth

Thank you everyone for your suggestions...I really like the idea of taking the guns to a gunsmith and having them disabled, but I think my husband is too smart for that...at least at this point. Sometime in the future, he might not be. The doctor has said he will be the "heavy" about both issues, but as I said, I'm the one who has to come home alone with him. I suspect my husband will "pay lip service" to the doctor about the driving issue while we are there and everyone will think all is well. The other issue will be highly sensitive, but my husband may keep his cool while we are there, but not afterwards. The OT-ist has broached this subject with him before, and he took an instant dislike to her. He just doesn't think there is anything wrong with him. He doesn't need grab bars in the shower or a shower seat, yet he complains every time he showers that it is slippery and he doesn't want to shower or wash his hair for days on end. I try to tell him that we (the OT-ist and I) are only thinking of HIS safety. I might as well talk to the wall. He is stubborn as a mule; always has been. It's just far more intense that it was..he gets angry much more easily I will keep all your ideas and suggestions in mind, and may even discuss them with the doctor. I am just so worried about what tomorrow will bring. Tonight was bad enough when he wouldn't take his evening pills again. Insisted he already had. I told him fine and put them away, but he kept right on yelling and telling me I think I'm so perfect, all the while pounding on the counter top. I just walked away and took a shower...anything to get away from him. Sometimes I just cannot face it. I'm sure you all know what I mean. Thank you, too, for your prayers and concerns. I truly appreciate both. Take care and God bless.

When the doctor told my Dad that he could not drive or have guns in the house(he had shot his gun in the living room into the ceiling and my brother was setting there) Dad went wild. We did call the sheriff and he had a long talk with Dad which seemed to calm him plus I got some medicine for him to calm his irritation. You truly need to call the doctor before the appt and have him put on medicine for irritation. Can you have the doctor call in a prescription so you can get him started on it before the doctors visit? Also, please visit your police/sheriff dept and tell them what is happening so they can be alert to any problems.
And PLEASE protect yourself from harm!
Sorry you are having such a hard time..it's not easy for sure. Prayers & Hugs!

Yes call the police dept to do the enforcing. I told my husband he had to get rid of the guns. I have them hidden and I want to sell one of them. It is a German Lugar and I have been told it is worth at least $2000. I could really use that cash right now! The police dept told me I would have to bring the person to the station to register the gun. I am still trying to figure out how to get rid of it. I definitely don't want it in the house.

Oh my gosh. I am so sorry for your situation. I talked to my physician when I was worried about a parent still driving and they told me that in our state, you can make an anonymous phone call to the police department re: your concerns for an elderly driver and they WILL follow through. They make the person come in, take a driving test, etc., and at least you are not the one that gets blamed for the person not being able to drive anymore. Your situation sounds quite dire though, and it doesn't seem that you have the time for all of that. So sorry, will keep you in my thoughts. Please take care of yourself. You have to do whatever you need to, for your own safety.

Dear Scared; I really feel for you. If you are, as you say, scared, you need to get out of this situation and keep yourself safe.

I will keep these conversations in my head for a long time. I am a nurse and my gonna be 79 year old mom with advancing dementia has lived with my husband and myself for going on 3 years. The state took her license after she had to see a neurologist for dizzy spells. She understood the BIG SIGNS in the office that stated the physician was required by law to report it. But 6 years later she still blaims my sister that took her to the doctor's. Let law enforcement help. Disengage the car.Guns can inflict pain without being loaded. And remember that it's the disease talking, not him. Unless...... unless he's always been mean-spirited to you. If that is the case I fear for you. The anger can come from no where. and no reason. Our logic and their logic is not on in the same book, let alone same page. Has he ever hit you? Have you been scared of him, in the past?
If he's a danger to himself or to others you can have him IVCed. Involuntarily committed. to a hospital with a PSY unit. He could get a psy consult and let the professionals give you their opinion. I will remember you in my prayers.

Generally, I think it is best for the senior to reach his own decision regarding when not to drive. My father decided to stop driving on his own and I never "took the keys" or his license. He just stopped driving because other younger drivers began to scare him (in NJ drivers cut you off regularly and if you are a senior you fear you can't slam on the brakes fast enough to save yourself). At least that is why my father at about age 88 chose not to drive. He was a great driver and always drove over 100 miles a day round trip to and from work. He used to enjoy driving but with age some things have to stop. He was never angry about it because it was his decision. Next, if you don't allow him to drive, he needs someone to drive him so he doesn't miss driving. Being stuck in the house and no one available to take him out will certainly bring out a temper.

I never had a gun issue,my father opposed having guns in our home. He said if you need a gun to be safe at home you don't need the gun you need to move to a safer neighborhood. Thus I am out of ideas on prohibiting guns. If he isn't a hunter, perhaps just quietly move the guns to a son's home or something. You haven't sold them and he still owns them but he can't harm himself with them.

Good luck. But I think playing these changes off as small changes probably is the best way to go. Seniors are bound to get their back up if they feel they are being told what to do. Best if they think they have relinquished control not lost control of their life.

Elizabeth

Ask your parent's doctor to write a note/fill our form, for the driver licensing bureau for your parent to be tested immediately. When they fail, their license is taken. Call the licensing bureau and tell them your parent is no longer competent for driving and has Alzheimer's. For guns, just take them away. Call the police and ask them to take them. Call the registration organization...if there is one, and ask them to take them. Just get them out of the house. And get your parent off the road before tragedy strikes. It was really hard for my mom, she was driving and getting lost. Wasn't looking to the sides, and was not concentrating. She was still pretty high functioning, but it was clear it was not safe for her to be on the road, for herself, or others. My father sold her car. End of driving. So you have Power of Attorney yet? Most important to have this so you can take charge of these difficult issues.

You do not have a choice you need to remove yourself from the home and call social services and tell them what is going on and the police from a safe place-give the police and social services your son's phone number and street address and let them handle it-they are the professionals-let us know how it goes -many others are in the same situation.

The gun problem has a couple of options. One way is to render the guns inactive and the other to render the bullets inactive. This is a way to prevent arguements - and disasters.
With the guns you can take them to a gunsmith and have them reduce the firing pin so it will no longer allow a bullet to fire. This they can do and the gun looks intact.
With the bullets, take a quantyity to the gunsmith and have them pull the projectiles from the cartridge and remove the propellent (powder). Then boil the cartridges to render the primer (the little detonator in the center of the base of the cartridge) inactive. Replace the propellent with sand and put the bullet back. You may need a little dab of superglue but be sure it does not show.
Both these things are done with display items and they look like they are OK but are in fact useless.
Hope this helps. The car keys is another matter...
Good luck

This is a hard one. But you have to be strong.It is not just his life that you have to protect. Think of the quilt that you will have if someone is hurt or dies if he is still allowed to drive or own guns. I know that this is a pat answer but you must help him understand it is an issue of safety. My family had the same problem. He had suffered from memory loss and was living in an assisted living home with at lot of freedom. My uncles would take his keys and sell his car but he would just go purchase a new car. The verbal lashing was horrible but it must be done. My prayers are with you and your dad.

I completely understand how difficult this is. I care for a husband, Steve Sr, with a heart condition who is an alcoholic. He did know that he shouldn't drive and most of the time did not want to drive, but after two or four beers he'd get in the car and drive down to the store for packs of cigarettes in the morning when I was asleep. We fought over it constantly. I'd try to limit beers, take away his keys and hide them, and he made my life a living hell moaning, griping, whining, and fighting with me over it. Heck, he fought with me about everything. After my last child hit 18 I began looking for a place of my own. We amicably separated with the understanding that I'd still be in charge of budgeting, shopping, and providing beers and smokes. I took the truck, I told Brian that I'd buy a car he could use but he said he didn't want one because of the cost of insurance and gas. Several months after I moved out we had a father's day BBQ for Steve; Steve Jr and his girlfriend came, we brought many gifts and we all cooked for him on the new grill I gave him. Steve Sr was drunk and passed out before the meal was served and that was the last straw for me. I told all the kids, we're done, we've seen this too many times, I will not waste anymore money on beer everyday for him. Brian pointed out that I had promised to, but he knew that I was right and he really was tired of a drunk father. Everyone agreed that it needed to be stopped, but no one wanted to be part of it. So I marched into the bedroom and told Steve. He acknowledged me in a drunken haze. I called him up the next day and reiterated. He felt bad, said he was sorry, and said I was right.

The ONLY reason I could cut him off of his case of beer a day was because I DID NOT LIVE WITH HIM. I didn't have to listen to him complain, he could not fight with me. After a month dry, I let him have a six pack and chips/dip, makings for burgers, etc for a baseball game that my son and his gf were coming over to his house to spend the day with him for. And that's how it goes now. He gets one once in a while for special occasions. I wish I had had the courage to do this many many years earlier, but some men will make life hell when you do. Getting out was the best gift I ever gave myself.

Let the doctor tell him, let the police take the guns out, and go to a woman's shelter. Feel free to leave and have a life without stress and fear.