How to adapt to a new household dynamic?

Desperate, look up a thread on here " I'm so disheartened and...." poster's name is Dorker.

Although her MIL doesn't live with her, you'll see that the only thing under your control is YOU. And that sometimes, you just have to say no to get folks the care they need.

I'm so relieved to read your last post and sense your determination to change this situation. Think of it as switching from being the doer to the project manager or coordinator.

If your husband and SIL (and any family members) expect all members to pitch in, by all means give them that opportunity! Draft a list of everything that you know now has to be done, give it to them and ask them to indicate which jobs they'll take, AND ACTUALLY PERFORM. That includes SIL and hubby, unless they've decided they're not going to perform and in that case you'll have to use MIL's funds to hire someone, as you're not going to do their work.

You might want to consider creating a password protected e-mail account on your computer as well as a word processing file and save all the e-mails, these posts here and related material in that so no one else can access it.

Thinking ahead, I can see the possibility of this family turning on you and alleging that you're neglecting care of their mother, and threatening with such claims as abandonment. If they pull this, as they become desperate to continue getting free services, remember that she's not your mother, that their family isn't helping, and that they won't pitch in.

So document what you're doing but don't let the family know about it.

And remember that you married your husband; you didn't marry his family and you don't have to accept their standards of non care or shoving it off on you.

Your sons should have the option of deciding to participate or not; however, based on what you've written, they don't want to, nor should they have to. Children have enough challenges with learning how to navigate growing up and entering the work world.

I'm beginning to get a clearer picture of your husband's family dynamics. MIL sets the terms of her care; husband and SIL for whatever reason don't challenge her but push the issue off onto someone married (not born) into the family. Kind of the old Cinderella syndrome with a twist.

You do have a rough road ahead of you, so be prepared for a lot of resistance from husband, SIL and MIL. You might want to brief your sons beforehand so they know that there might be a nasty scene when you confront hubby and SIL.

The Alzheimer's Assn. has very good outreach support, at least in my area. I've gotten lists from them w/I 1/2 hour, while the Area Agency on Aging takes about a week.

To buttress your demand for help, the AAA and possibly the Alz. Assn. - I'm not sure), or a private duty company can assess MIL for ability to perform ADLs, cognizance, etc. That professional medical assessment can provide you with support in countering the "she's just... (a) (b) or (c)..." excuse.

Good luck!

Again, Barb makes good points.

After my sister died, her insurance company refused to maintain the policy on her house, b/c it would be vacant and also b/c title was vested in her trust. I had to find a different insurance carrier that would work with me, but had to carry title in my name, and I also lived there part time.

If Florida has any property tax relief (although I'm not if Florida even has property taxes for seniors), that relief might not be available since the house is no longer her primary residence.

And if she listed property taxes on Sch. A of her Federal 1040s, that would be affected as well as the home is no longer her primary home.

Who's going to manage the lawn, upkeep, and other maintenance on the house. Be prepared to refuse responsibility for this. Let them hire contractors.

Contact your former employer and explain that you expecting arrangements to be made shortly and that you're interested in returning to work.

You might even want to get more than one needs assessment, both from AAA, and/or from private duty companies (one of the first things they want to do is come out and perform an assessment) but make sure it's by an RN with a current license. One of the PD companies I contacted planned to send out an account exec to do the assessment. I wanted a medical and ADL assessment, not a financial portfolio assessment.

Start researching elder law attorneys in your area and begin contacting them for a meeting. The AAA will offer advice in some areas, but you should definitely not take legal advice from anyone except an attorney. If you need help in finding one, just indicate that.

"Contact your former employer and explain that you expecting arrangements to be made shortly and that you're interested in returning to work."

That's laughable.... I told my manager at Waffle House and was told.. "You either want to come to work or not"...

Waffle House is not known for it's support of it's workers.

Then start hunting for another job. Waffle House can't be the only place needing support staff. Do some online research and find one that treats its employees better.

Well, there's some chutzpah!

I quote: "That's their Grandmother, they shouldn't be so selfish."

And whose mother is this lady, remind me? Yours? The boys'? Ah, no, wait - your husband's, his sister's. But apparently it's not selfish of them to dump this severely needy lady on you.

Wow.

I will be EXTREMELY charitable and remember that they will both have their own stresses and anxieties to deal with, necessarily, and are therefore probably not thinking as clearly and fairly as they normally might.

But that's not your fault. Let's see if we can't think of some ways to bang heads together.

Deep breaths! Hugs.

"We are not in the food business. We are in the people business." Joe Rogers Snr.

Your Manager at Waffle House might want to ask himself what Mr Rogers meant by that. They also bang on quite a lot about "continuing personal and professional development." Quite hard to achieve that if you don't allow your staff to continue working through the challenging times as well as the clear runs.

But. Look for another job anyway.

Cwillie ..yes my blood was boiling to reading DesperateinFL situation & I bet this SIL does not give a care about her own in laws just good enough to interfere in her brothers family!!! & Gardenartist you are so right in calling it the Cinderellasyndrome..someone had said the boys should not have to worry about this type of responsibilities they have enough to worry about as they grow up not sure how old the boys are but they need to live their childhood & not be granny sitters..i remember my DH saying to my son sit with your granpa everyday for a few hours he seems like hes going into depression my son said to me..why does dad not sit with him its his dad he hardly spends any time with him as a son!!! DesperateinFl I am glad you are starting to look into getting some help & advice..again take care of your health do not put yourself on the back burner in this family.

While you're at it, go back to your MIL's doctor in Miami and ask for a summary of his reasons for advising that she could no longer live alone. Because of HIPAA he will probably need to address this summary to MIL, but as long as it goes to your address and you know what to look out for you can either intercept it (which would be a bit naughty but hey whatever) or ask to discuss the report with her.

But anyway - he started it! So the least he can do is give his reasons, in writing.

Good luck, and please let us know how you're getting on.

I would be telling hubby he'd best be packing MIL's bags, she is going with him on the next trip!

Seriously now, I had an unoccupied home for a year, following a fire. I had to move out of state to find work in my field. The insurance went from 1,500 a year to nearly 5,000 a year! Course part of that was the large loss and claim.

Call AAA on Monday. Then start shopping for assisted living for MIL. If she needs to go to hospital for any reason refuse to take her home, telling them she requires more care than you can provide. Social worker at the hospital will then try to guilt you into taking her home. Don't let that happen stand firm and strong.

"If she needs to go to hospital for any reason refuse to take her home, telling them she requires more care than you can provide."

As horrible as it may make me sound, I sometimes hope/pray (especially like last night at 2am, when she wanted me to call her CPA on Thanksgiving, because her taxes needed to get done) that she will fall get confused so I can call 911.

My husband finally seems to get what I am going through, and it had nothing to do with me telling him day after day. My oldest son, had to call him, and talk with him about how Grandma really is.

The final straw to my oldest son was when my youngest son walked through the living room yesterday and she just YELLED at him "WHY DIDN"T YOU CLEAN THE BATHROOM?" . Stunned we all looked at her, I said "Mom, he cleaned it the day before yesterday." She said, "I know, but for extra punishment he should clean it every day". I was like "uhmmm.... Ok". So that incident was enough for my oldest son to call his Dad and say to him, that it was not fair to be the target of her aggression, either one of them.

That's when my husband asked me "So she really is bad? I just thought ya'll were butting heads because you both have different personalities".

To which I replied, "no, me telling you EVERY day, should have been your clue that this was not just us butting heads.".


So we'll see how it goes.....

I agree that this thread reminds me so much of Dorker's. A H and SIL who push off the care of their mother just like happened to Dorker. The only differences are that Dorker doesn't live with Narcissa (DesperateinFL, that is the name some of us have given to Dorker's MIL), and Narcissa seems to be "nicer" than your MIL. (But Narcissa is still a prime manipulator.)

H and SIL want the cash from the sale of that house in FL when MIL dies. So they think that MIL living at home will save that asset. But what H and SIL aren't thinking of is that as MIL becomes needier, she will need far more than can be provided by you (and she already needs far more than can be provided by you).

Please keep us updated on what happens on Monday when you call the numbers you've gathered.

You deserve SO MUCH better than you are getting from your family. And you WILL get it!

DesperateinFL..so glad your son called your husband he is finally starting to see the real side of things...Reminds me of my situation my DH will not take anything seriously about his parents if I say it.but if the kids complain about them he actually listens. It seems like your boys are older which is good I am glad you have their support..take care

" my DH will not take anything seriously about his parents if I say it.but if the kids complain about them he actually listens. It seems like your boys are older which is good"

Isn't funny how that works? .... I haven't given him a reason in 23 years to not believe what I'm saying but let my oldest (who's 19) or my youngest (who's 16 ) say something and it's like a "AH Ha" moment for him....

Actually I am starting to feel bad for my oldest, He works at Disney World on Fri,Sat, Sun 10-11 hours shifts and goes to community college on Tues/Thurs. And bless his heart he will do his best to chip in for Grandma when he can, but I can tell the way he sigh's when she gets in her Musical Chairs phase (She wants to go from the chair to the couch, Wants to go from the couch to the bed, wants to go from the bed to the bathroom, then back out to the chair all in a span of 30 to 40 mins) that he's suppressing what he's feeling as well throughout most of the day.

The youngest wants to chip in and help but she's just so angry and nasty at him all the time, because in her mind, he's just willful, disrespectful, and just a "bad boy" , all because she overheard a phone conversation between me and his school addressing his slipping grades in a couple of his classes. She'll say to him "Why do you worry your mother with your grades?" "Why don't you just behave?" She thinks he is disrespectful because when she asked why is his grades slipping, and he responded "Well, if the house wasn't waken up every 2 hours at night maybe I would be doing better in my morning classes". I do everything in my power to keep him out of her sight because his presence just obviously upsets her in some way.

It's just more grist to your mill, Desperate. That woman (who I'm really going off) is creating a hostile environment in your house; while your boys (who I would like to send free tickets to their choice of ball game) are engaging with her as a real person, which is far better than she deserves.

But she's clearly lost the plot. Not safe or reasonable for her to be cared for in your household.

Desperate, look up "loss of filters" for dementia patients. The comment she made about your son cleaning the toilet could be considered just rude, but it could also be reflecting that she's losing some of the niceties and polite interaction of civilized conversation.

DesperateinFL..Again you are blessed with 2 wonderful boys at that age they are so busy with their lives studies/jobs its not easy & they but they still make a effort with Granma you have raised them well goes to show what a wonderful lady you are ..my kids do help but really do not have much patience....I hope things work out for you.

It's right after supper, homemade Hamburger Stroganoff. Of COURSE during the middle of browning the meat she had to go to the bathroom (I'm sorry but it's her go to reason to get someone to come pay attention to her) I removed the skillet from the stove, went to take her to the bathroom, While leaving the bathroom to come back out to the living room, she says... "I'm breathing hard" .. I said "Are you alright?" she replies "I don't know" I put her in the chair and say. "Ok, take some deep breaths, calm down and see if you don't have to breathe so hard". I finished supper, brought her, her plate of food. She ate about half, I asked. "Are you still breathing hard?" She replied "Yeah" I said "Well That's not good mom, you should get that checked out" She replied "What the hell's the difference" . I told her to relax. about 20 minutes later, like clockwork because I was cleaning up the kitchen "I have to go to the bathroom". I take her to the bathroom. She wanted to brush her teeth after using the restroom, so I stand by her while she brushed her teeth. I asked again, "Mom are you still breathing hard?" She says "Yeah/No... I feel woozy, I just want to go to bed". So I put her into bed.

I'm so new at this, I don't even know if there is a warning sign I'm missing right now... I know not being able to breathe properly is NOT a good thing, but I'm not sure when I should draw the line between worried and panic.

Any help, guidance would be GREATLY appreciated.

Geez, I'd call 911 and have them listen to her breathe. And tell them about her change in mental status. And her problems walking. And the fact that her doctor in Miami said she has serious medical issues, but that you have no idea what they are.

I'd have her sent to the ER for sure to let medical professionals check out what the issue is.

And give the EMTs husband's cell phone number.

Desperate, one thing you can do is buy a good quality pulse oximeter. It reflects oxygen saturation rate ("sat rate") and will at least give you an idea what hers is. It could be a clue if she's in respiratory difficulty. You'll get different answers on what SAT rates should be but if hers is below 90, I'd be concerned. If it drops lower than that, and downward in the 80s, call EMS STAT.

I think I'm going to move out of my house into a homeless shelter.... (Vent over)

I kept an eye on her last night in bed, and her breathing got more labored and progressively worse. to the point she was panting like a dog, and could not talk well.

I told her, "Mom, the fact your breathing is keeping you from carrying a conversation is NOT good, I'm going to call someone because neither of us know what we're doing here".

I called 911, the dispatcher sent a fire rescue/ambulance truck. The two guys came in listened, took the oxygen thing GardenArtist mentioned. it was 92. The guys says it was consistent with someone who was having a generalized panic attack. They gave her some oxygen for a few moments, and took her blood pressure while sitting down and then again while standing up. They were VERY concerned over those results. They wanted to take her in to hydrate/evaluate her heart pressures. But she didn't want to go. I said she really needs to go. I was asked by the two guys. "Has she been declared incompetent?" "Does anyone have durable power of attorney". To which I said, "Let me call her daughter".
I called my SiL in NJ, and gave the phone to the guy. He asked her the same questions. and I assume she said she had POA, because they guy said, "Ok, can you meet us here with that paperwork?" . There was more talk, then he said "Yes, I understand your position, but we can not confirm anything you are saying, you could be anyone on the phone, unless you can produce that paperwork, we are obligated to follow the wishes of the patient, which she has emphatically declined our services."
There was more talking then the guy tells her "I understand, but may I offer an opinion, it is irresponsible to place your mother with a caregiver who can not produce any proper paperwork, or be able to make any decisions about care.. Your sister in law made a care choice, and rightly so given her pressures, your mother needs further evaluation. but your sister in law is not in any capacity to make those care choices reality."

He went further and told her " I can see this is new territory to everyone involved, and this is not judgement, but for the sake of your mother, you need to get your ducks in a row, appoint a guardian, gather the proper paperwork and have them available in the future if our services are needed again, as it stands unless she is unresponsive we are legally required to honor the wishes of the patient".

I told him that I had planned to contact Osceola Council of Aging on Monday (you know holidays) he told me that sounded like a great idea. That I was horribly new at this caregiving aspect, and he told me to not beat myself up, I was doing just fine, that as far as he could see I was taking excellent care of her. He told me to stay on SiL to get someone in the household appointed guardian. He also told me to keep a notebook with the date, time, and their rig number and their names. He said that when suggested services are declined, they are required to write a detailed report about the incident, that I should keep a record of all calls for care, so that in the future I can not be held liable for non care allegations or etc.

I'm starting to think, this caring for her is going to KILL me, I've had a terrible bout of acid reflux since the paramedics left last night. I fell asleep for my standard 2hr shift between her crazy night time antics, and I literally woke up unable to breathe, it was like somehow acid came up my throat and went down my lungs. It was the most horrible experience.

Thanks for listening, and allowing me to express the frustrations of my life. I really do appreciate being able to just share what my life is like right now.

I am sitting here in England yelling three cheers for you, D. You are doing so brilliantly, and I am also so glad for you that the paramedic was so experienced and so firm and so clear.

This is a nightmare, but you are getting through it and it will end well. You're a hero.

(Hope idiotic MIL ends up none the worse for her daft decision. And actually she can't be blamed for that because she doesn't have a functioning brain. It's just not your fault she and her children didn't work all this out before).

Oh, Desperate. You did just the right thing!

Glad the EMTs talked to SiL, hoping that will get her on board with the gravity of this situation.

Will MIL go for a dive with you? To the ER?

"Will MIL go for a dive with you? To the ER?"

That would require her to stop talking nasty to me this morning, I have been "dramatic" and a "worry wart" all night and morning, even at 2 am when she was out of her mind thinking her son is still in college and her husband was still alive, she still knew I was "dramatic".

SiL did say last night, that her hands were tied at the moment, that she was quite simply incapable of taking time off right now. But she did say that in January in between college semesters that she would fly down and spend some time with her mother.

Google " sundowning" and you might recognize what was going on as that syndrome. 

Desperate, the only person you have the ability to change is you. 

Moving out for a couple of days when your husband gets home is a thought .  ( do you have a friend you can stay with?)

You can not be so " dramatic" the next time she appears to be in distress and walk into another room and call either DH or SIL and ask for instructions. Video her on your phone so they get the full color version of what is occurring.

Make an appointment with your primary care doc and tell hef/him what's going on. Meds can help. So can talking to a counselor.

" Video her on your phone so they get the full color version of what is occurring. "

What a novel idea! I actually had a thought yesterday before all this started that I should be cameras in the house so that SiL can see how "needy" her mother is.

The God's honest truth is... If I could just get her to stay still longer than 20 minutes and not require someone to ALWAYS be in the room with her, my quality of life would improve exponentially. But literally having to move her every 20 minutes because she's restless/bored/whatever is not only cumbersome but starting to show some serious strain on my back and knees. Who would have thought 100 lbs would be so cumbersome?

When I first found this site, there was a woman in a similar situation like you. It was a fascinating ongoing situation - like reading your situation here. .. Except her mother-in-law (MIL) was very smart. She was very nice and normal to everyone. But when alone with her DIL, she was mean and nasty. Like your MIL is towards your younger son. Nobody - not her husband, her college age daughter, her husband's sister, the extended family believed how abusive the MIL was towards her. Because she was so nice and normal when anyone was around. DIL tried and tried her best. Finally, she couldn't take it. She took her 2 younger boys and moved back home to her family - in another part of the county or state (?). For a while hubby, daughter and SIL (sis-in-law) called up and lectured her for leaving. I believe it took several weeks before MIL could no longer hide her true meanness (as part of the dementia). The next phone calls were begging her to come back and help them with her. She refused. Finally, hubby and SIL found a home for MIL. That's when she moved back home.

Depending how far gone your MIL is with her dementia, she might still be able to pull the wool over your husband's eyes on those 2 days he's home. She will definitely want to seem normal in front of her children.

Wouldn't it be scary if hubby and SIL decide to choose you as the Medical POA? I'd better start rehearsing in front of a mirror, looking yourself in the eyes, and say convincingly, "NO, I will not be POA. NO, I will not put my life on hold to take care of your mother. I will help when I can, but I will not be her primary caregiver." It really works (using the mirror). The first time I tried this, I couldn't even look into my own eyes. It took several tries, after several days of trying - before I was finally able to do it. (I'm from a culture where women are submissive to the male family members.)

Paramedic is correct and really nice to give you that very, very important advice: Document, Document, Document.... From the sound of it, he must have seen situations where the poor caregiver was accused and defenseless against Elder Abuse. Take his and everyone's advice seriously. Document everything!

Wow, I can't believe that paramedic was so incredibly helpful, IMO he really went above and beyond. SIL can maybe fit in a visit in January? Maybe? Still in the land of denial even after being called by EMS? At least DH is starting to see the light, maybe.

Ahem.

Oh dearie me, I am so terribly sorry that you have had to burden poor SIL what with her college commitments and all.

Are her hands tied so very firmly that she cannot resign her POA, which she clearly has no intention of using for several weeks? Then if MIL has capacity she can create a new one, nominating you, I suggest, seeing as you are the only one who stays within spitting distance of her; or if she hasn't capacity then DH and SIL together need to make an emergency application for guardianship.

You did not make up MIL's breathing difficulties, you are not imagining or dramatising the severity of her symptoms, and the fact is that this lady cannot be kept safe in the standard domestic setting. You are already being a SuperCaregiver, which is just not sustainable at this level for the next six weeks and especially not over Christmas and the New Year, and still she is refusing necessary medical assessment because you do not have the authorisation you need.

SIL may have other priorities. Fine for her, but not good enough for MIL's welfare. This cannot wait until the middle of January.

Recording her behaviours is a very good idea. Calling SIL to ask her advice on what to do might be another. A few broken nights might concentrate her mind on the issues wonderfully.