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I hate to say it, but some do it on purpose. My loved one, who was neither senile, nor suffering from dementia, looked at it as a way of perhaps getting kicked out of the nursing home. It was awful...my sympathies to anyone who must deal with someone like that.
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To Anoni0000...I thought that was what nursing homes were suppose to deal with.
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actually in a nursing home I would think if they're doing that they would have them in at least disposables or should anyway
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Ah you see you hit the age old issue of abuse again. While you sanely know that it is not right proper hygienic or whatever other term you want to put on it to have him in anmything else but clean dry clothing if he refuses to allow them to do that then exactly what can they do until he retires at night (at which time they can whisk them away) If in the morning he refuses to wear disposable they cannot force him to. He has rights and if push comes to shove he can enforce them. Even if he doesnt have capacity he still cant be restrained or physically forced to wear them.

I was much surprised about 6 years ago while on a visit to a mental health unit to see a relatively young man about 60 with quite severe alzheimers. He refuse point blank to wear anything excep a towel round his waist and when he kept taking that iff they made him a sort of skirt type towel that secured with velcro. I did ask about it and they said he becam incredibly violent when anything else was given to him to wear and he would trash his room in seconds and had hurt several staff too. Okaaay I thought well I thought a lot more but for now Okaaay would do. I was giving a talk to staff about cross infection when said man walked into the room and promptly started whacking his appendage on the table. Well I did keep a straight face not sure how but they took no notice of it at all. They just accepted he was who he was he did what he did and they sanitised the table immediately he left. So I think that we all know what needs to be done for some people we just have to work with it rather than against it. keep encouraging, cajoling hell I would even use bribery if it got a result!!!!! anything that would help keep him clean and dry. Perhaps showers a couple of times a day?
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wow, I'm assuming this guy was at least in a memory unit?
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Geez, JudeAH, I'll never complain about my mother's eccentricities again!
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Jude thank goodness he wasn't incontinent!
I am sitting here watching PBS and they and they are showing the equivalent of the "Golden Girls" - Keeping up appearances made me wonder how Hyacinth managed to look after Richard in his declining years. I can't see her putting out the dirty depends for the dustmen to see. Now we are on to "As time goes by" This is going to be a long Summer.

Deyja give her time and Mom will come up with something!
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Yes he was in a mental unit but as people age they go into an EMF unit elderly mentally frail which covers everything outside of care home and nursing homes where it is mainly medical nursing but not alzheimers, but is not really suited to people who have developed alzheimers on top of existing issues. No he wasnt incontinet per se but he would just wee wherever he felt like weeing not necessarily in a toilet. They did try him with a male urinal bottle but that was an absolute disaster so they did what they could and got him on to the toilet as often as they could and managed the rest by constantly monitoring and cleaning. We think we have it tough but in some cases we have it really easy - there is not a hope on earth I could manage someone like that. All of a sudden I have found my boundaries I guess.

Veronica Keeping up Appearances makes me smile too. A woman whose surname is Bucket bbut she pronounces it bouquet....reminds me of a doctor we had whose surname was pronounced dee arth but was written Death. Now tell me would you visit this doctor? That said the doctor who operated on me was called Haq pronounce Hack and my dentist was called Coward - so appropriate
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Most of my medical and dental care is provided these day with unpronouncable names. In this case I don't know the meaning of their names in their native language but in the main they provide the best care. I was scheduled for surgery with Dr Hu pronounced Who. the anesthetist nixed that at the 11th hour because he demanded a cardiologist report so I said I would go without it.
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The late editorial journalist Herb Caen loved to find and report on names that were funny or have a double meaning. We had an accounting firm in our town years ago that made it into his column: Hunt and Steele.

The minister of the church I went to while growing up was Rev. Blessing. I guess that name didn't leave him much choice when deciding on a career!
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It seems to me that would be one of the main things a nursing home would have to deal with - incontinence. In fact, incontinence is one of the 'disabilities' that qualifies you for assisted living/nursing home admittance under my and my husband's long term care requirements. We would have to meet 2 out of 5 daily living activities.that we could no longer perform...so if we become incontinent and cannot bath ourselves or walk without assistance, etc, we would qualify.
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I have the same problem with my 87 year old father for the past three weeks. Before that he was changing his clothes and his depends type urine pads. He was fine for months, then he had a barium enema and has not changed clothes since. The bed is soaked and so is he. House smells so bad and he smells so bad I had to move out. Dad does not see that he has a problem. He would not let professional caretakers in to help me. So eventually become delirious from his UTI and other issues and only then am I legally allowed to call an ambulance to take him to the hospital. Caretakers can literally care themselves to death. And since my family is prone to strokes, I had to move out to take care of myself. You might need to contain your husband and his mess in one part of the house and you live in the other.
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@muzette99835....you have to take care of yourself!! If a person won't allow any help what can you do. They need to be in assisted living, etc. If my husband gets that bad....and he might....I would have to wait too until something happened and he would have to be admitted. He's the type not to deal with his issues...I have the long term care insurance ready..that's how I would help him.
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@muzette - that all sounds sad - sounds like he felt some kind of trauma, or barrier broken by being given the barium enema. needs to have someone say sorry, seems rough, but now you've got to change, and keep a full supply of clean disposables nearby. I'm a caregiver, and find it's hard to know sometimes, what's usable or not - one can throw out so many.

Your solution of move out doesn't work either - I'm living through a situation like that right now with an upstairs tenant who refuses to believe that I hear her music or tv - which she plays low, with earphones, left on the table. She refuses to wear headphones, and I'm going nuts down below - late at night I hear the tiny, aggravating, permanent noise. I've moved my bed 3 times, situation never resolved - hurts my sleep, and I work early, often over stressed, tired. Could put her out, and might, but need the money, and I hate the internal debates about how big a thing is it! I share this to show the frustration of the solution of, "just move out of sight/mind." We seem to hate setting boundaries! Appreciate many of the comments on this topic, and the jokes.
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Earplugs for you??
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my mom did the same thing. we stumbled upon this trick by accident. one day we were eating a hot dog with ketchup and some ketchup dropped on her pants. my brother pointed out the ketchup on her pants and mentioned it would stain if we don't wash it. he was able to get her into the bathroom to change. we used to try and keep food from dropping onto her clothes, but now we aren't as vigilant as my mom is more apt to change when some food drops on her clothes. if the person doesn't mind food stains then this won't work.
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This is disgusting and you should NOT put up with it. Try the nice, friendly approach first and try it several times. If nothing works, tell them you are going to put them into a home immediately if they don't cooperate - and be prepared to follow through if nothing works. Most times that will scare them enough to allow you to do what has to be done for them. Good luck.
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Depending on how long he's been in those clothes, you may actually be faced with having no other choice but to cut them off with a pair of surgical scissors like the hospital uses. If he won't cooperate and this is the only option left, then I would say grab the scissors. I wouldn't feel bad, clothing can be obtained cheap or even free in various multiple places. You may actually find that keeping paper pajama bottoms or even hospital gowns as an alternative to regular clothing. However, if you go this route you'll definitely need to look into adult diapers. However, if needed you may also have to cut them off when it's time to change if he won't cooperate. I don't think he'll cooperate any more with adult diapers then he will with his regular clothing, and you may actually have to initiate a good clean up by first bringing in proper help. If he ends up fighting you, I think I would call the squad and have him taken to the hospital, but don't let him come back home. This will force initiation into a proper facility with trained staff who specialize in this area
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I am starting to feel like good cop bad cop here and yet isolated at the same time.....So here goes - Moderators feel free to ban me. I know you can so I accept that but I have to take issue YET AGAIN with something Riley has said that caught my eye.

Riley your advocacy re caring for the elderly is appalling you write:

"This is disgusting and you should NOT put up with it. Try the nice, friendly approach first and try it several times. "

Do you honestly think that hasn't been tried first? Yes it is disgusting to YOU and yes it is disgusting and unhygienic and dangerous to the carer, but to a person who has a dementia and whose wires are so crossed that no-one can understand what is going on, it clearly has a different meaning.

There is no point trying anyone opting for anything other than a friendly approach, or playing soft music or getting them in the shower and then washed IN their clothes then taking them off which is something I know people have done in the past. Even if you're going to attempt to cut the clothes off that. as a carer, is a risky business and you should be engaging professionals for assistance.

BUT WHEN YOU WRITE

"If nothing works, tell them you are going to put them into a home immediately if they don't cooperate - and be prepared to follow through if nothing works. Most times that will scare them enough to allow you to do what has to be done for them. "

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY IRRESPONSIBLE. It is also illegal because emotional abuse of the elderly is illegal. Why in God's name would you want to scare someone who can't fend for themselves, can't understand that what they are doing is wrong, is already scared of what is happening to them. Why would you think you can take it upon yourself to distress them - it is wrong people, it is illegal, engage the professional mental health workers who are specialists in working with people who have a dementia and they can advise and offer help but to deliberately scare them? Absolutely not.
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Phoenix I absolutely agree with you comments about Riley's post. I appreciate the fact that at 83 the is still very active in her community and concerned with her own healthy life style which she is fortunately still able to enjoy. I am "only"78 and physically incapacitated at this point. Whenever I answer a question on this forum I try and put myself in the loved one's situation and consider how I would feel if someone started cutting off my clothing.
I would resist verbally physically and finally curl up in absolute terror.
Now if I soil myself and that has happened in severe illness, I am co-operative and grateful to the people who take on the job of making me nice and comfortable again. During many hospital visits I am perfectly used to nurses male and female telling me to take my clothes off and put the gown on, in fact I feel like I have stripped off so often I might as well be an exotic dancer. I hasten to add that no one would be slipping $100 bills in my underwear. No one needs to threaten me because I am still competent and understand the reasons.
People with dementia do not understand the orders they are given or the reasons for them and may have a paranoid reason for refusing. Add to that they may not remember what they have been told and either just sit there or put the gown on over their street clothes.
Being wet or soiled may not necessarily feel uncomfortable, in fact can be comforting as it brings back the feeling of being cared for as an infant.
Riley states that she is caring for someone who is suffering with age related problems which is a whole world away from dementia. This is not an attack on Riley because I am sure her motives are for what she feels is the best way of dealing with a certain situation. I hope she continues with the forum and is open minded enough to learn the differences between aging and dementia. I have personally learned so much here from other posters.
I have a broad back and don't get offended when people do not agree with what I have written.
It is not personal everyone is entitled to their own opinion and when they disagree they are free not to follow that person or try and correct their perceptions.
Riley has a very impressive resume and in her area I could not come close to competing. In her office I would probably be the one making the coffee, but in a hospital situation I was a supervisor.
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Thanks for that Veronica I reported myself just in case anyone felt I was out of order. By the way you would have been enjoying the coffee I made (well maybe not enjoying but I would have made it!) Do I have an impressive resume? Hmm possibly... I have authored 23 books one or two on elderly care and dementia, most on IT and one on healthy eating for the elderly but that means nothing. It is far far easier to write about it than to do it. Doing it is mind numbing, its soul destroying, sleep depriving, sometimes revolting (to me that is.... not to my Mum). Trying to get the support you are entitled to is frustrating, is almost impossible yet ripping a social worker a new £$% hole wont get you anywhere. If I want to be angry with anyone it is the governments who deliberately and short sightedly leave vulnerable adult carers to fend for themselves in the most appalling of situations.

To show you what a cockamamie world we live in here is an extract from a fostering agency in the UK :

"Everybody is entitled to make a living from their work and providing foster care is no different, and the fostering allowance is there to provide you with just that. You can be paid up to from £650 per week per child."

Now read the carers allowance:

"Carer's Allowance is money for people who spend at least 35 hours a week providing regular care to someone who has a disability. That person MUST be on the higher rate of benefit.Carer's Allowance is paid at £62.10 a week regardless of the number of people you look after."

So will someone tell me how come a foster parent who cares for 2 children with a disability can get £650 a week for each of them (£1300 a week) but an adult who has contributed to society all their lives and gives up work to caregive perhaps for two disabled parents gets £62.10 a week in total?

Please don't try and tell me the former is more difficult than the latter.

Political rant over
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(I see all the points being valid under a variety of circumstances [and I'm 41 and was full time caregiver for my father, who is considered competent by medical standards].)

"Threatening" or "scaring" sounds harsh, but "drawing a clear boundary that's in everyone's best interest" - which I think was the intent - makes more sense. Words are difficult to interpret only via a short paragraph, dry text on a screen. I think semantics-interpretation is difficult, and more so when it's a naturally emotionally charged subject -- like elder care is to anyone who's done caregiving for any length of time.

Hey! I just was described today by a behavioral specialist as an "expert at communication" after my hour-long new-job assessment test! How am I doing??? lol

Good rant, PD. It's... HORRIFIC... what little value society and governments place on elders in "First Nation" countries. If you can't pay your own way - and hory sheeit, it's so expensive to pay for proper memory loss care!! - then screw you.

I think the US is as bad or worse, and I think we win for "Worse" because we still have for-profit medical. I was reading something at the pharmacy tonight, while waiting to pick up Rx. There was a discount card being offered for a certain manufacturer/brand of insulin. The discount was $500 to anyone who had an accepted form of insurance. It was $100 if you didn't have acceptable coverage. The meaning I interpreted is: this manufacturer must be charging 5x as much to insurance companies then they are to individuals, simply because they know they will get paid exorbitant amount from insurance that no sane person would ever pay simply for a specific type of INSULIN. (Ffs, not like they invented the cure for cancer. There's my rant).

:-(
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I understand where you're coming from AliBo (obviously the communications results were accurate) however when you're dealing with someone who doesn't even know if they have pooped or not, the likelihood of them understanding that you are setting clear boundaries is pretty distant. I have been known to say to my Mother " I have to sleep Mum I cannot continue like this on 2-3 hours sleep a night. Stating the bleeding obvious right?

Wrong ....my mum heard if you wake me up again you have to go to a care home and she was scared.

I had to sit down with her and tell her I needed to sleep during the day to make up for not sleeping at night OR we had to pay for a carer to come in - well she wasn't having any of that so I was allowed to sleep (for an hour or so) but then she had totally forgotten the conversation about me needing sleep but not her original interpretation, so we go through the hoops again being supportive and as tender as you can be when you're running on empty
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I tried to use the "cooperate with me or else" threat with my father and always got the "OR ELSE" choice thrown back at me by his extremely stubborn self. So for a variety of reasons, it doesn't work to verbally communicate things to different types of people who still need our care.

I personally think he was more afraid when he would be off on his own, but his stubborn nature wasn't going to ever back down, so... it just made things worse to say -- "Shower or else you're going to have to go to a place with professionals, I'm going to quit." He said "BYE" every time. lol
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Gigi11, Your post was 2 years ago, but I have to say it was SO funny, if such subjects can be called funny.
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It sounds to me like you're definitely going to need some help and reinforcement on this one, those urine soaked clothes must come off even if you all must cut them off. I would give him the ultimatum after getting some back up, either he removes them or they get cut off. If you must cut them off then cut them off
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I wonder what people in AL or NH would do. Would they just leave the resident smelly and filthy?
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I don't know if you since resolve this problem, but if not, you may actually have to call in some strong back up and cut them off
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