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The content has all been moved, but it's been a drag to have the court clerks and the judge protect her every step of the way. The judge ruled that a hand writing expert I paid for wasn't competent , iyiyiii the expert found her ✋ writing three places on dad's phony will that she made up
Margaret, speaking to property descriptions in the US (I'm not familiar with them in Australia but assuming that they're not the same based on your inquiry):
There are 2 kinds with which I'm familiar:
1. For "platted" land, which has been subdivided, and lots created:
This is an example of land that's been platted, i.e., created as a subdivision, with additional division and creation of specifically numbered lots. A platted legal description could be something like this (which is a bit more complicated than most lots):
2. For unplatted land, for which "metes and bounds" descriptions are used: This is a short example of a metes and bounds description for lands that aren't platted. When I was working in transactional law, we encountered these more often in the West, especially in areas bordering undeveloped land, or close to deserts.
Some of these were really interesting: I recall a few that incorporated specific trees as markers. These descriptions were developed decades ago, and the land had never been developed or platted.
History literally became current when some legal descriptions referred to mineral and water rights. (Remember the movie Chinatown, with Faye Dunaway? Water rights were an issue in the theme of this movie.)
(Igloo could speak to property rights and reservations of specific commodities such as water and probably mineral rights in LA.)
The above is a description of a metes and bounds property, but not a fairly large one.
3. Uses: in the US, legal descriptions are used for deeds (Warranty, Quit Claim and Deed C) as well as in mortgages, liens, easements (UCC statements if I remember correctly), leases, conveyances and anything that requires a specific land location identification.
For the OP, it seems as though her sister (a) wants to check out the properties to determine ownership, encumbrances, or other filings affected the property, or (b) something potentially more detrimental to her parent with dementia.
Now I'm curious about Australian property descriptions. Are they similar to these? If not, what are their purposes? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Panhead: If the data your sister seeks is in the safe, I would think that removing it to a different safe location would be the safest option. Do you think your mother or step (?) father would agree to that?
However, if your sister has addresses of the specific properties she wants to identify, all she has to do is either contact (or go to, if allowed b/c of the pandemic) the offices of the county recorder, or sometimes the assessor's office, to get legal descriptions.
I think the larger issue is what her plans are, and that's where the big question of stopping comes in. Given that your mother's husband has dementia, any inappropriate action your sister takes would probably be invalid, but apparently that might not stop her.
What I'm thinking given that this seems to be an ongoing battle is consulting an attorney to get an injunction against her apparent attempts to access property now, and hereafter, unless otherwise specified in a will. This is a task for an elder law or real estate attorney, especially one with real estate ligitation experience, depending on the property and issues involved.
Thank you GA very interesting, and totally different from Oz. South Australia (where I originally qualified and currently live) had the first system in the world of land title by survey and central registration – people regularly came for OS to learn about it for their home countries. All real property has a title with a Volume and Folio reference, with surveyed dimensions on a plan, and all documents related to the land (sales, liens, mortgages, easements etc) are registered on the title. In SA, property could not get a freehold title before survey. There may be exceptions I’m not aware of, particularly interstate where settlement was earlier, but this is so common that they didn’t even teach ‘old system’ land rules in my Legal History or Property courses. The Lands Titles Office registers are open for public inspection (for a fee, of course, since recent privatisation), and all Council rates etc identify the property by Volume and Folio number. Obviously, a 'property description' is irrelevant.
I re-qualified as a solicitor in England, and worked extensively for 6 years in Old System unregistered conveyancing – particularly selling off long term unregistered leasehold land (eg for the estate of the Earl of Cawdor in Wales, shades of Macbeth). The purchasers had to register freehold title immediately, as all the Old System titles were compulsorily converted to registered titles. We had to provide a long history of title and inheritance dealings. The leases had the plans. I remember one with an easement 'on foot with and without wheelbarrows'.
Thanks for your post, and I’m sure that OP is grateful too, Margaret
The sister is up to her old games again , and I'm in the third year fight in probate court over my biological father's estate , it's been so difficult and now she is after everything that my mom and her husband have built together in their life time ,by trying to have my mom's husband give her the property description so she can start a new batch of troubles after they pass on.
This is a bit confusing. What are ‘her’ ‘property descriptions’? Do they belong to your sister, or is ‘her’ a typo? Are the ‘property descriptions’ just a list of assets, or are there original documents involved (title deeds, Dad’s will etc)? Have you talked to your sister about this? It is possible that she would simply like some information, and also possible that Dad with dementia is getting the wrong end of the stick about her requests. Perhaps more information here would help you work out what to do.
If you have access to the safe, remove the important documents and place them somewhere she does not have access to (like your own personal safe or a safety deposit box). If you don’t have access to get inside the safe, can you have it moved? Assuming you don’t live with your dad, can you have it moved to your home?
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
There are 2 kinds with which I'm familiar:
1. For "platted" land, which has been subdivided, and lots created:
This is an example of land that's been platted, i.e., created as a subdivision, with additional division and creation of specifically numbered lots. A platted legal description could be something like this (which is a bit more complicated than most lots):
https://landsurveyors.pro/assets/uploads/_resampled/ResizedImage600577-plat-of-subdivision.png
2. For unplatted land, for which "metes and bounds" descriptions are used: This is a short example of a metes and bounds description for lands that aren't platted. When I was working in transactional law, we encountered these more often in the West, especially in areas bordering undeveloped land, or close to deserts.
Some of these were really interesting: I recall a few that incorporated specific trees as markers. These descriptions were developed decades ago, and the land had never been developed or platted.
History literally became current when some legal descriptions referred to mineral and water rights. (Remember the movie Chinatown, with Faye Dunaway? Water rights were an issue in the theme of this movie.)
(Igloo could speak to property rights and reservations of specific commodities such as water and probably mineral rights in LA.)
http://waterandsociety.leadr.msu.edu/water-films/chinatown/, if you want to read more about the issue of water in California.
https://www.wikihow.com/images/thumb/0/0b/Get-a-Legal-Description-of-Property-Step-7-Version-3.jpg/aid6150653-v4-728px-Get-a-Legal-Description-of-Property-Step-7-Version-3.jpg
The above is a description of a metes and bounds property, but not a fairly large one.
3. Uses: in the US, legal descriptions are used for deeds (Warranty, Quit Claim and Deed C) as well as in mortgages, liens, easements (UCC statements if I remember correctly), leases, conveyances and anything that requires a specific land location identification.
For the OP, it seems as though her sister (a) wants to check out the properties to determine ownership, encumbrances, or other filings affected the property, or (b) something potentially more detrimental to her parent with dementia.
Now I'm curious about Australian property descriptions. Are they similar to these? If not, what are their purposes?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Panhead: If the data your sister seeks is in the safe, I would think that removing it to a different safe location would be the safest option. Do you think your mother or step (?) father would agree to that?
However, if your sister has addresses of the specific properties she wants to identify, all she has to do is either contact (or go to, if allowed b/c of the pandemic) the offices of the county recorder, or sometimes the assessor's office, to get legal descriptions.
I think the larger issue is what her plans are, and that's where the big question of stopping comes in. Given that your mother's husband has dementia, any inappropriate action your sister takes would probably be invalid, but apparently that might not stop her.
What I'm thinking given that this seems to be an ongoing battle is consulting an attorney to get an injunction against her apparent attempts to access property now, and hereafter, unless otherwise specified in a will. This is a task for an elder law or real estate attorney, especially one with real estate ligitation experience, depending on the property and issues involved.
I re-qualified as a solicitor in England, and worked extensively for 6 years in Old System unregistered conveyancing – particularly selling off long term unregistered leasehold land (eg for the estate of the Earl of Cawdor in Wales, shades of Macbeth). The purchasers had to register freehold title immediately, as all the Old System titles were compulsorily converted to registered titles. We had to provide a long history of title and inheritance dealings. The leases had the plans. I remember one with an easement 'on foot with and without wheelbarrows'.
Thanks for your post, and I’m sure that OP is grateful too, Margaret
Heck I pay the property taxes on our families' vacation property and I have never seen a tax notice.
Your sister is going to cause trouble no matter what. I would just sit back and not worry about it for now.