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I haven't had any experience with a feeding tube, so I can't give you any practical advice regarding that.
Did your grandmother ever discuss HER preference about what she would and would not want at the end of her life? Much like Alva, my mom was very vocally against anything like a feeding tube.
I suggest strongly you reach out to hospice and put this all before them. Tell them you are only looking for information regarding feeding tubes at end of life. It doesn't obligate you to engage them just because you reached out to them for information! If you don't like what you're hearing from them, then don't engage their services. As Joanne said, my mom's hospice didn't encourage us to withhold food; rather they let mom decide how much she wanted to eat based on how hungry she was.
I would also suggest you talk more in depth with GM's medical team. I would specifically ask if she is swallowing 20% of her food, is that enough to keep her from painfully starving to death, which seems to be your main concern. It could be that the 20% she is able to swallow is enough to keep her comfortable. The last few weeks of my mom's life she ate less and less; she was also having trouble swallowing, and everything was "dry", even stuff covered with gravy. But she never complained about being hungry, and I let her eat however much she wanted. Frankly, as the end came, I was more worried about complications from her eating too much rather than not enough.
I hope you can find an answer that will give you and your family peace. I am sorry that this is so difficult for you. (((hugs)))
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arrowattack09 Jan 2021
Thank you for your kind suggestions. I think you're right- we need to have a very specific and direct conversation with her care team. I really am concerned about her starving to death. Ugh. I guess I'm worried that if the tube is pulled and she IS hungry, she won't be able to swallow enough food to keep her hunger at bay and make herself feel ok. But you might be correct that maybe the 20% is enough to satisfy her hunger, if there is any. I'm not sure. I think we will schedule another meeting with her doctor. Thank you for your advice and personal input!
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It is my understanding (and experience) that hunger is usually absent as the end of life nears, so the few bites of food she does eat would be enough to satisfy (and you'd be amazed at how long people can live on very few calories). Always offer, never force is the best motto, if she wants more she will try to eat more but I suspect that the little bit she does eat is all she really wants. If she does want to eat and expresses hunger and you also find that she is choking or distressed you can always revisit the issue.
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Hospice does not stop food if the person can eat. Food is stopped when the body is shutting down. First thing to go is the ability to swallow. When actively dying, the body can no longer absorb food and liquids. Its worst to feed someone than not feed someone at this stage.
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arrowattack09 Jan 2021
Yes, I am assuming that she would still be offered the pureed food (that she is currently eating about 20% of currently) in hospice care. You mentioned that "food is stopped when the body is shutting down"- if she is unable to swallow due to the affects of the stroke not necessarily because her body is shutting down, then should food still be stopped? I realize that this is not a quality life that she is living at this point. And I don't want to selfishly keep her around for my benefit (even though there really isn't much benefit to me at this point due to not being able to see her etc due to covid restrictions).
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Your post says “We had a feeding tube put in to see if she would make any improvements with swallowing, talking, moving, etc. She has not.” If you had known that there would be no improvements, would you have had the tube put in? Probably no.

Your worry is now whether she will feel hungry if the tube comes out and she wastes away feeling hungry. You’ve been told that the opposite might happen, and she will start eating again. If she doesn’t, on hospice care in the end stages of life she is most unlikely to feel starving hungry. As the body closes down, it does not need food and can't digest it. Most people eat nothing at that point, and the most they want is something to keep their lips and mouth moist, painted on.

Perhaps you need to go back to your original ‘choice’ about the feeding tube. It’s hard to feel that you are making ‘life and death’ decisions for someone you love, but many of us are faced with it. A painless death with dignity is the best any of us can hope for. Love in a difficult time, Margaret.
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arrowattack09 Jan 2021
Ma'am, my grandmother had a stroke and was in therapy to see if they could get her to improve her swallowing and regain any abilities that were lost. We didn't "chose" to put a feeding tube in knowing that she wasn't going to make any progress. The aftermath of a stroke can vary greatly. Some people recover functions with therapy and time. She did not.
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But apparently, as you say, they are offering her food and she does swallow some. The drive to eat does leave; there is no hunger and this is why you see so much wasting. I have feeding tubes and IV total parenteral feedings forbidden under any and all circumstances in my advanced directive. As a retired RN I dread and fear being kept alive in the shell that bears no resemblance to what my life was.
I fear from all you say that you will question yourself if you withdraw these feedings. I certainly would not, but you seem to be. I will tell you that these feedings often lead to diarrhea and bedsores, just more torment.
If you are ready for your grandmother to pass, if you accept that she is at the end of her life, then I suggest you do as the doctor has advised. If you do not accept that she is at the end of her life, and feel that you are starving her to death, then I suggest you withhold a decision until you discuss further with her MD. Hospice is for those who accept that the end of life is essentially now here. That while some interventions may prolong (the often tormented) few days, weeks or months, these interventions will not stop death coming. Being born is a pre existing condition; we will have to die. If you have hospice your loved one will not suffer agitation, hunger, air hunger, but will be medicated for peace and an almost dream like sleepiness. Will this cause an earlier death? Perhaps by some minutes or hours or days. But not by much more.
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stefanid Jan 2021
I too am a former RN and agree 100%. The feeding tube is, in my opinion, an abomination that simply prolongs suffering. Someone whose bodily functions are slowly breaking down, does not warrant such an invasive procedure. For what purpose are we feeding someone who is dying? I fear its solely to assuage any guilt the family might feel. Hospice is wonderful. Take the feeding tube out, provide IV fluid to maintain hydration and request moderate sedation (morphine 4 mg q 4-6 hrs)so she sleeps. One of the recommendations I used to make for families is the use of frozen flavored ice tubes. Put some of slushy on the lips and tongue. If she's 'hungry' her natural response will be to lick and swallow. But if she's doesn't sense hunger, and end of life patients rarely do, its simply a caring gesture to keep her mouth and lips moist.
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I would get a speech pathologist involved with your mom's swallowing issues. It's possible that her swallowing trouble can be remedied and the tube removed so she could eat again, if she had the desire to eat. People in their final stages of life do not feel hunger and do not feel starved. Consult with a hospice agency to see what their plan of care would be. Hospice is all about comfort care and death with dignity.
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arrowattack09 Jan 2021
We did not get a speech pathologist involved specifically, but she was in therapy to try to recover lost functions, including swallowing. Improvements were not made, and insurance decided that they were no longer going to cover any therapy for her. We certainly aren't above paying for services out of pocket, but I really don't think that she is going to make improvements under any front. I often hear people talking about how we don't need food at the end stages of life. However, would you consider her to be at the end stages of life if she is not actively dying/regressing? I think that is where I'm hung up a bit. Do I think she's living a quality life at this point? Absolutely not. But by removing the feeding tube, I'm afraid that we will be essentially forcing her to die a very uncomfortable death. I know that there are issues that come along with feeding tubes etc. If I knew for a fact that she wouldn't feel uncomfortable/hungry/thirsty/ etc after taking the tube out, I have no question that it would be the right thing to do.
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People ask some variation of this question fairly often on AgingCare so I've bookmarked an article that you may find helpful, although it specifies Alzheimer's I think that the basic points still apply:

https://www.choosingwisely.org/patient-resources/feeding-tubes-for-people-with-alzheimers/
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I can't speak specifically to your questions, but do want to share experiences with removal of a feeding tube.    A major issue is being able to communicate and understand instructions on function and care of the feeding tube.   Given your GM's decline, I would doubt that she could understand why she's undergoing the ordeal of having a feeding tube.

And it seems that sensory deprivation is a strong factor in her life at this point.

When my father had one, for several months, we had to change our entire life to accommodate tube feedings every 4 hours, and up until about 1 am b/c Medicare didn't provide larger capacity bags for 24/7 applications.    It was a very difficult challenge for both of us.   And it was depressing except for the fact that Dad was rapidly improving physically, so there were strong motivations.

My father was 85 at the time, my sister had just died, so I could focus all my caring on Dad.   He eventually was able to eat normally again, although he developed dysphagia in his later years.  

I can't answer your specific questions, but I  know that if I ever face that situation, I WILL NOT have a feeding tube.   If there isn't a strong possibility that someone can recover, I think it just accentuates the misery of aging adaptations.

If your GM hasn't progressed, and is swallowing (and possibly aspirating) about 20% ) I think you probably are aware that that can lead to aspiration pneumonia, or more obviously, choking.   That kind of choking and coughing and attempt to clear even pureed food from the throat is hard to watch, and probably harder for the individual.

You seem very compassionate, and you're aware that your GM doesn't have much quality of life now.    I think that would be a major consideration in considering whether or not to prolong her life with a feeding tube.

A very blunt but realistic question is what does she have to look forward to?

I hope you spend some time in solace, considering all the options, and asking yourself if you would want to spend your last years in a similar condition, and that you make a decision with which you feel comfortable.    I offer my best wishes for comfort and peace to your family during this challenging time.
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arrowattack09 Jan 2021
Thank you very much for your thoughtful and thought provoking reply. I really appreciate your experience and will definitely consider the things that you have mentioned.
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