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A trusts and estates attorney would also be appropriate in your situation. Ideally, a law office will also have both tax and elder law practices in house.
Vegas lady is probably on the right track on it being an inaccessible asset. It's an issue for a really experienced elder law atty who does farm & ranches to work through to come up with an appraised of % ownership with farm P&L. And same atty to deal with probate atty on an estate issues after death as working family farms should be exempt from any MERP estate recovery.
I'd bet Medicaid will view it much like they do for mineral rights / oil&gas royalties.... an inaccessible asset like what Vegas said. For O&G, it's an asset that for some states Medicaid is common enough that it's on the application and annual renewals. O&G for Medicaid is an asset but an asset that can't be sold; an inaccessible asset so the applicant can keep it but reports any income from it. If need be the $ can be amortized for the year to keep it ok for income / asset limits. I'm not talking Spindletop but more the type of O&G lease that's been there for decades. Like the ranch has minerals beneath; the mineral rights were leased to an exploration co. Exploration co pays a initial & 1 time only fee for signing. Initial could have been done decades ago. Only if mineral currently produces a royalty will there ever be additional $ paid. Exploration co will lease huge tracks that's 1 field. If field is 64 owners, royalty for the little farm is 1/64. Tracts can be combined and the math gets loco. Royalties traditionally pay 12.5%. Now the farm could sell the mineral rights but probably gets no interest. Mineral deplete, usually 35 years production. Decades later maybe paying nothing or maybe under $ 50 a yr & that $ is reported to medicaid. Some producers do aggregate pay, so until royalty reaches a check requirement (like $100) no check is issued & it could take years to hit $ 100. So owner with mineral rights from ages ago basically has an odd asset ok for Medicaid as it's inaccessible to sell & has value hard to determine & produces no real $. I'd bet a good atty can get the same considerations worked through for a farm. Good luck & let us know what happens!
This is something that definitely needs expert advice from someone who knows Illinois Medicaid and estate law. A working farm would be considered as an uncountable asset under the laws of some states if significant income was being generated. There would be no reason to make changes in ownership. However, states may differ in their laws, and sometimes decisions of the government can be unpredictable. I would not do anything without first getting expert advice. You could end up shooting yourself in the foot if it is not done correctly. Changing ownership might be the worst thing you could do -- I don't know, since I'm not an expert on these things.
What is the assessed value? In county assessor's records? That is a good starting point. Are there water rights included? Maybe selling portion of water rights would get sibling the value needed so in effect you buying sib out. Get with an attorney well versed in Medicaid and farm/water law.
Paying the sibling 3 or 5 times that value would seem like a good starting point if the undivided portion of the Medicaid applicant's share is considered an accessible asset. I do hope it is considered an inaccessible one.
Farmland is precious and my worry would be that having it appraised by the wrong person would set its value at what a developer would be willing to pay for it. Farmland is often subsidized and/or granted property tax abatements. But, towns and counties would much prefer to get paid higher property taxes like the ones that come from single family homes and housing developments.
Ask the farm bureau in your area where to start. Perhaps paying the third sibling to give up his/her share of the farm is a good idea if the amount is reasonable and affordable. Do you happen to know how much the farm currently pays in property taxes? Do you know how much the farm currently generates in annual revenue?
The undivided portion of the Medicaid applicant's share might be considered inaccessible as an asset, thus exempt. This is a perfect case for a legal opinion from the proper elder law/Medicaid attorney.
Can the two who aren't applying for Medicaid afford to buy out the third? You'd need to get a proper valuation done; and of course it would mean that the Medicaid applicant would first need to run through his resulting cash; but at least you'd have the peace of mind of everyone's finances being separated formally.
If not, and losing the ill sibling's share poses a risk to the farm's viability, I don't know but I would expect Medicaid to look sympathetically on the situation. Fingers crossed.
A big question is if it is a working farm that provides important income for the family. Family businesses have special consideration when it comes to Medicaid. If it is not a working farm, it will be handled as a property that your sibling has interest in.
How do they hold title? Jointly, with each having a 50% share? That might factor in. Check the deed, or if you don't have access to it, get a copy from the county clerk's office, register of deeds, or other entity which records property.
I know very little about Medicaid, but it seems to me that the % of ownership would be a factor.
And as FF advises, contact Medicaid to raise the issue, after you've determined how much interest each sister has in the property.
This is a question that only your State Medicaid office can answer. Each State manages their own Medicaid programs so what one State does, another State might not.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
It's an issue for a really experienced elder law atty who does farm & ranches to work through to come up with an appraised of % ownership with farm P&L. And same atty to deal with probate atty on an estate issues after death as working family farms should be exempt from any MERP estate recovery.
I'd bet Medicaid will view it much like they do for mineral rights / oil&gas royalties.... an inaccessible asset like what Vegas said. For O&G, it's an asset that for some states Medicaid is common enough that it's on the application and annual renewals. O&G for Medicaid is an asset but an asset that can't be sold; an inaccessible asset so the applicant can keep it but reports any income from it. If need be the $ can be amortized for the year to keep it ok for income / asset limits. I'm not talking Spindletop but more the type of O&G lease that's been there for decades. Like the ranch has minerals beneath; the mineral rights were leased to an exploration co. Exploration co pays a initial & 1 time only fee for signing. Initial could have been done decades ago. Only if mineral currently produces a royalty will there ever be additional $ paid. Exploration co will lease huge tracks that's 1 field. If field is 64 owners, royalty for the little farm is 1/64. Tracts can be combined and the math gets loco. Royalties traditionally pay 12.5%. Now the farm could sell the mineral rights but probably gets no interest. Mineral deplete, usually 35 years production. Decades later maybe paying nothing or maybe under $ 50 a yr & that $ is reported to medicaid. Some producers do aggregate pay, so until royalty reaches a check requirement (like $100) no check is issued & it could take years to hit $ 100. So owner with mineral rights from ages ago basically has an odd asset ok for Medicaid as it's inaccessible to sell & has value hard to determine & produces no real $. I'd bet a good atty can get the same considerations worked through for a farm. Good luck & let us know what happens!
Farmland is precious and my worry would be that having it appraised by the wrong person would set its value at what a developer would be willing to pay for it. Farmland is often subsidized and/or granted property tax abatements. But, towns and counties would much prefer to get paid higher property taxes like the ones that come from single family homes and housing developments.
Ask the farm bureau in your area where to start. Perhaps paying the third sibling to give up his/her share of the farm is a good idea if the amount is reasonable and affordable. Do you happen to know how much the farm currently pays in property taxes? Do you know how much the farm currently generates in annual revenue?
If not, and losing the ill sibling's share poses a risk to the farm's viability, I don't know but I would expect Medicaid to look sympathetically on the situation. Fingers crossed.
I know very little about Medicaid, but it seems to me that the % of ownership would be a factor.
And as FF advises, contact Medicaid to raise the issue, after you've determined how much interest each sister has in the property.