I recently received POA-property for my 84yr old Mom. She has cognitive dysfunction but still is able to care for herself in her home with some oversight from my SIL and my mom's younger brother who lives in the house with her. I live across the country from her. My brother and SIL live close by. Since assuming responsibility for her financials and bills I have learned she is in very good shape in that regard. I also learned that she has been supporting my brother and SIL. I strongly believe in helping family however, when I learned my brother and SIL have had years long history of very poor to non existent money management, I'm pretty angry. They are not bad people. My SIL has been VERY wonderful and helpful taking care of Mom. She is takes her to Dr appointments, organizes her meds and more all despite her own medical and mobility issues. Yet this woman has no concept of financial restraint or household budget. They live from paycheck to paycheck, are horrendously in debt and continue to live like nothing is wrong and no efforts to change habits. Mom pays for all car repairs, vet bills, lawn care, some groceries, has replaced appliances, the list is long!
Mom, in her more lucid times, knows she helped create the problem by repeatedly bailing them out and being a constant safety net. But she can NOT say NO. I don't wish to completely cut off helping my family, but I'll be damned if I allow Mom's resources be sucked away by people not willing to take some responsibility for themselves. However, being legally bound by the POA I'm required to use Mom's money as she wishes. Any suggestions?
Can you call for an 'all hands meeting' where the whole family meets and discusses what can be done? If it's just you and SIL--tread lightly.
Perhaps SIL is simply exhausted form the caregiving and feels completely correct in taking money for life's daily needs from MIL. In any regard, that has to stop.
The financial mess WILL eventually catch up with them. With possible horrendous outcomes.
How long have you had POA?
Tread gently, this is family, and these people are taking on an onerous job.
IF mom's wishes are to support B & SIL, then it should be in writing and re-visited from time to time to make sure it's all aboveboard.
I have set up all utilities and bills on bill pay/auto pay. I have meet with her financial advisor and attorney. I have hired a care companion to come in 2 -3xs a weeks (and took care of all the proper paperwork for payroll and insurance) . Im having Moms bathroom redone to have a safer and more senior accessible. Also looking into some basic electrical safety inspections/updates as it is an older house. I spent several weeks with her and accomplished much of this while there. With electronic everything, it really isnt too difficult to take care of things from afar... just stressful at the moment.
Myself and the rest of the family are hopeful that we can convince brother and SIL to accept our proposal to help them out of their hole and get some financial counseling, debt consolidation and budget help, we in turn will continue to give support along the way.. but they have to make an effort as well. The Bank of Mom is not bottomless.
Thank you all for your comments.
Unless you have control over all mom's finances (and this will be difficult removed as you are) she remains prey to those living with her. Once there is no money they will be gone. And where does that leave Mom? And what can you do about it?
I was POA and Trustee of Trust for a brother across the state from me. It was excurciating getting everything together for sale of his last home, move to ALF and getting payment for all bills transferred to me as POA still keeping his mail coming to him. An absolute nightmare and were I to have a penny for every hour waiting on the phone I would be rolling in money.
What can you imagine yourself can be done here. Short of moving Mom near you in a controlled environment (and what money is there left to do that) I cannot imagine a single thing you can do her other than to frustrate yourself into an anxious mess over it all.
You are legally bound to let Mom do what she pleases with her money as long as she has no diagnosis of dementia at all. After that you are legally bound to PROTECT her money. That means she has control of nothing but a small spending account. However, at that point the leeches will leave the bloodless farm to richer pastures. Mom will be broke and unable to get medicaid.
You need to see an attorney ASAP and lay all this out. You are in a dreadful position. This is difficult enough with a wonderful, organized, careful and rational person (which was my bro.) But in this case, it is imho impossible, and I would not myself attempt it.
Request an accounting of hours and duties from SIL. The SIL should be paid for her services at a competitive rate for the services she provides. Other than that, there should be no subsidies to them from your mom.
Explain to your bother and sister in law, that Mum's finances must be used to cover her costs, which include all the help SIL is providing. Pay her a proper wage , legally.
For me, Mom was found incompetent. So her finances were now in my hands. I knew exactly how much money she had. Which was not a lot. If she had been supporting a sibling, that person would be told they were no longing getting anything from her. Actually, my disabled nephew was living with her and out of the money he was receiving, he paid her room and board.
I would look at it this way, she paid them to care for her. It would have cost her to hire someone to do what your brother and SIL did. Your Mom has cognitive problems with this comes not being able to reason. Moms really not in the place to make informed decisions. Thats were the POA comes in. You need to sit down with brother and SIL and thank them for all they have done and will do for Mom. If Mom gets worse cognitive wise, she may need care in a NH. You all need to understand what that means. It means at least 10k a month in the NH private pay. It means when the money starts running out, Mom will need to apply to Medicaid. Most states have a 5 yr look back. Within that time Medicaid looks at bank statements and may question any large purchases. Buying a refrigerator for DB is a gift, it can cause a penalty and Mom cannot receive Medicaid until the penalty period is done. Have figures showing that Moms money needs to be conserved or it won't last.
As POA you are there to protect Moms money not carry on what she did before. As POA, you can pay your SIL for what she does. Have a contract written up by a lawyer, explaining the duties she is being paid to do and how much she will be paid. Medicaid will except this as part of her care. This contract may change as Moms needs become more. I think this can be done without accusing anyone or telling them to learn to budget their money. You may want to say that you noticed Mom has been helping them out and your hoping by paying SIL this will help them out because you can no longer pay out for the things Mom has been. The money she has is for her bills and any future care she needs. And maybe some day she will need care in a NH with Medicaid paying. If so, her SS and any pension will go towards her care.
Really, brother has to realize Mom will not always be there. She could pass tomorrow. What a shock that would be. Mom no longer there to hand out money. Now we have to mow our own lawn and get rid if the animal we can't afford.
But OP, the bottom line is, I think you must follow your conscience and do what you feel is right: only you know your family members, and all the reasons that led to your brother being financially dependent.
Here is my view on money:
1. If the world valued the right things, your brother and SIL might actually be millionaires (lovingly caring for your mother).
2. Other people who have so-called "jobs" might be penniless, because in my view, some "jobs" aren't really jobs. Just the fact that you get paid, in my opinion, doesn't mean you're actually doing a job.
3. Just because our laws say, this is a "job" doesn't make it a job.
4. Just because our laws say, this isn't a "job" doesn't mean it's not a job. For example, all the thousands of hours our mothers, through all generations in the history of humankind, have helped their families, raised their children, unpaid.
Regarding you OP:
1. If your brother borrowed money from his mother, I see nothing wrong with it.
2. Many families help each other financially. I see nothing wrong with it.
3. The one who helps the most the mother, loses many hours, which they could have used to earn money, get a well-paid job.
4. Many adult children who care (for example for their mother) end up in this vicious circle: they're kind, they help, they lose time, they get poorer, they need some way to earn money, but the mother needs more help and needs more of their time, they lose job opportunities.
I look forward to the day the world values (financially) the right things, and rewards - financially - the right people.
I'd like to see, who is poor then.
Reel in the spending, sure. But weigh what mother is getting out of the arrangement (getting to stay in her home, being cared for by an unrelated woman who is likable), and what you're getting out of the arrangement, against what is being taken from her/you.
What was the reason you decided to get poa for your moms money as you said she’s of overall sound mind in her early 80’s and able to live on her own ? Younger sibling and wife are extremely helpful to her you report, and her finances appear in excellent standings. Curious under those circumstances why you would have a desire for poa, you mentioned you live across the country as well
If there are no medical records stating mom lacks capacity, then as her POA, you are not only responsible for paying her bills, but also for spending her money as she directs. This has consequences, because if she has to go to an Assisted Living, the cost will be about 10,000 per month. That is not sustainable for extended periods of time for most people, even if they have hundreds of thousands of dollars saved. Once her money runs out, she will need to apply for medicaid, and be transferred to a facility that accepts medicaid. Medicaid will review all her spending for the last 2-5 years, and will not allow for unaccounted spending to count towards her financial criteria. Which leaves not only you, but your sibling, in a bind.
If you do have medical records stating that mom is cognitively diminished, or lacks capacity (ie, dementia or mild dementia), then your role as POA changes drastically. At that point, legally, you can only spend money on things that benefit mom. You can pay for things she wants, but only if they directly benefit her. Any spending which does not benefit her is considered financial exploitation of a vulnerable adult, which is a criminal charge. However, your sister in law is providing a legitimate service for your mom, and it seems your mom, in lieu of paying her directly, is gifting her things she needs. For legal and insurance reasons, this needs to change.
Meet with your brother and sil. Explain that mom may need to go to assisted living and apply for medicaid in the future. Because of this, you need to change the way they are reimbursed for their care of her. Explore stay at home caregiving costs, and pay them accordingly. (It sounds to me like mom is getting about $5,000 per month worth of care from sister in law (the going rate in my area for daily caregiving).) Do not overinflate the salary, because you must be careful not to exploit mom to benefit your family members, either. However, the level of care they are providing definately has value.
AKKaren, there is so much value to you and your mother in having someone willing to be hands-on with her. Make a contractual agreement for a set amount in exchange for care, no bailouts, and establish a way to verify they actually perform the care that you’re paying them to do. You can’t change the way SIL handles her finances but you can eliminate the bailouts.
Folks let me chime in...don't you love it, if I were King for a day, this is what I would do.
Bottom line: Who shows up in life and who is doing all the work? Whether it's paid or unpaid, the caregiver is busting their hump. Enough said...
You give an excellent impression of the clueless relative. Your brother and duster in law ARE being responsible caregivers. Do you have any idea of the stress, the emotions, the day to day time and energy it takes to care for an elder parent, much less one who has problems with lucidity?
Your mother has instructed you to follow her wishes. The bills aren’t frivolous. Just do it.
And for a point of reference, a caregiver I knew got $60,000/year plus employer 8% social security contributions, room, board and access to the car. Housekeeping not a part of the job description.
If I am reading this right, they LIVE with Mom, so would the appliances not be hers? Is the lawn not hers? Does she love the pets? And whose car, and does she get driven to and fro in it? I'm not being smart arssed .. just asking. Since you say her financials are in good shape,, I would be happy to have those things covered as they are taking great care of her.An you don;t seem to be a position to do those things that they are done. They sound pretty wonderful to me!
with love and light
As these are early stages, isn't the best thing to speak to your mother and brother at the same time? - find out from him what he has to say for himself, from her what support she is prepared to give him in improving matters, and make clear to both of them that the gifting needs to be brought to an orderly halt because of the Medicaid implications. Is there anything particular about your brother or his circumstances that would make it impossible to achieve any budgeting discipline (addictions, chronic underpaid employment, e.g.)? And what about the debt: how was it accrued and how can it be got rid of?
You mention that her brother shares her house - is he going to become an issue?
Medicaid, for now, looks back 5 years for money that was given away. Total amts of money determine the penalty period where she would be self pay before Medicaid would kick in and start paying the bills. And if there's not a employer/employee relationship established for tax reporting purposes, the money she gives them is considered gifting.
Perhaps mom helped them financially because they have been good about helping her. Going forward, what you may need to do for compensation for things they do is to create an actual employer/employee relationship and start paying for things the right way. Why not explain the Medicaid penalty to them and let them know you will have to come up with some kind of monthly, hourly, or whatever pay amount. Better than paying a total stranger and can prevent some family problems later on. You are luckier than some because there is a sibling living close and he/his wife are willing to help mom. Have the discussion with them and then talk with an elder atty or CPA to help you set up legal documents that will detail payment amts/arrangements and either contract labor 1099 at end of the year, where they pay taxes on earnings if they make over $600 per year (I think that's the trigger amt) or you take taxes out per pay day so they don't have to come up with extra tax money they might not have.
Since they do not live with her so they must be managing themselves and a home. So what if she's helped them out? That's her son and DIL. She'd do the same for you I'm sure if you were in need.
Maybe think of it in these terms. If your brother and your SIL were to stop looking after your mom, she would end up in a care facility or if she was lucky with full-time homecare help. If you think whatever money she gives your brother and SIL is outrageous, check out how much one month of private cash-pay in a nursing home, assisted living facility, or full-time homecare comes out to.
Does she give your brother or SIL $10,000 a month? That's about average cash-pay for room and board in a poor quality NH in my state.
A half way decent AL facility is about $6,000 a month here. God forbid if you ever have to hire private aides for someone in AL and many people do.
If she needs homecare, private pay will cost less than a care agency will charge. A full-time aide (40 hours a week) that's going to run at least a grand a week or better. An agency even more.
Unless your mother is handing out this kind of money to your brother and SIL for taking care of her, you shouldn't get too upset over what she's given them.
Next, follow your mom’s wishes. That is your #2 moral responsibility to your mom. She chose you for this job because she knew you would do both of these things.
As others have written, your mom is incredibly lucky to have family present and helping. She obviously recognized this and helped them also in a way that was meaningful to them. Their dedication is invaluable and priceless. Your brother and sister in law may not be the most fiscally responsible citizens of the world, however, they are in the top percent of compassion, dedication and devotion.
You feel that your mom “contributed” to their financial situation by helping them limp along— but maybe she has instead been a lifeline for them — the “half full” way of looking at the situation is that she raised a son who is loving and kind who chose a compassionate and emotionally generous spouse — certainly this is not the norm in our country these days. Most people outsource most familial responsibilities to strangers. Many people spend most of their time focused on their cell phones.
You are lucky to have such a brother. Cherish him.
Instead of judging his missteps, be glad that you are lucky (yes, luck is part of it) and smart enough to create and choose a better financial position for yourself. Be grateful that your mom raised a brother like him. He allows you to rest easy knowing that your mom is getting TLC with minimal disruption to your own lifestyle.
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