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Looking for some insight on a financial POA delegating tasks such as banking and bill pay to another family member who is NOT named in the legal document.
Going to the bank for a POA I see no problem with if depositing. Hard to withdrawl if not the POA. Paying Bills are the POs responsibilities. The POA has to sign their signature and add POA to the end of their name. From your first post the POAs are not competent to do their job. I may help as much as I can to make sure things are done. Important papers cannot be signed by anyone but the POA and good records need to be kept.
The POA can hire a personal financial manager to handle what the POA does not have time for or becomes temporarily disabled. They cost about $200/ hour. However banking, deposits and bill paying can also be done by using their apps from the comfort of home
Create an online access at that bank for your LO and do all banking through that portal. You can send out checks that way, pay individuals with Zelle (or PayPal or Venmo). That's all I ever use. I hardly ever write a physical check or step foot in a bank or drive-up window.
Yes, they can. They are, however, still responsible. That means if they appoint someone scammy or unqualified they can be held accountable. The general POA when someone is incompetent, is responsible for good record keeping and can be called into court to account for every penny into and out of the elder's accounts. So they best choose wisely and keep monitoring. In fact a POA can say "I am not fully qualified to do this, so will hire a Licensed Fiduciary to do the bill paying". Such a person gets approximately 100.00 an hour to pay bills, keep records of finances, and etc.
A POA acts FOR the principal and in the manner the principal would act were he or she competent TO act. Any final decisions about sales (if allowed by his/her document) or investments will likely be passed by the general POA. The POA document is written (hopefully) by a good attorney and it will SAY in no uncertain terms exactly what the POA can do.
Speak with attorney for potential liability issues etc etc...and, clarification on the "who's who " on the accountability scale; lots or potential here for mix up, who told who what, who understood what and what, blame games, feeling " used", reliability issues and on and on and on. Why does the POA not want to do whatever it is they are wanting to delegate is one question I would ask ? Or is the POA have control issues etc etc. Lots and lots to consider here.
Another thought to consider if the poa is being compensated for tasks and then farm out the work to someone else would be unethical unless the poa provides that compensation to the person they delegate tasks to ( I realize this isn’t a concern as hopefully most are honest but there’s some poa who aren’t
As others have alluded to, you can assign tasks all you want but if the person being assigned the task does not accept it, then you are not progressing. I am in this situation. I am the primary caregiver for my husband whose child (from previous marriage) refused to help me. I am disappointed but what can I do? In your case, I’d advise you to have a backup plan in case other ppl refuse to help.
Just a thought is to compensate him for his time helping unless he is already a beneficiary of your spouses trust ( I don’t know perhaps you already offered this)
Hello Granddaughter CG! I was really interested in your post and I took a look back into the history of your post. I saw awesome information from October but where are you now? Are you POA? If not, the responsibility isn't yours. Did you apply for legal guardianship? Your LO has you and you have been doing everything! I'm assuming CG means that you have been her caregiver to limitless extent but you can't do anything. If "they" want you to do their job, F them! I'm really sorry you took this burden on yourself with no way to handle it. Either you get guardianship or just let God. We can't be heroes all the time. I know your LO has you. You been fighting this way longer than need be. I'm assuming you care too much and are willing to do anything that could hurt you, don't do anything! If you're not POA let it be. That's what wills are for, The creeps will get their comeuppance! Old term for theyll have helll to pay! Let it go!
Thanks for taking the time to look back - it's sure a long complex story. My grandmothers evil POA stepsons did a sneak attack and moved her out of her facility nearby and across the state. I arrived to visit (as I do 3-4 days a week) and she was missing. When asked they refused to tell myself and other family members where she was and would not provide a phone number to reach her.
Knowing how mentally unstable her POAs are, I took matters into my own hands quickly. I complied all clues I had, drove 2 hours and went on a surveillance mission to find her. Lo and behold I did find her. She was happy to see my mom (who was with me) and I. We visited for 1 hour. My grandmother put her finger to her mouth indicating she did not feel free to speak, and it appeared she could have been drugged, which led me to have concerns over possible chemical restraints. There is a camera in her studio apartment and she has no privacy. POA #1 busts into the room yelling at my mom and I pointing fingers at us telling us to "get out" Meanwhile, my grandmother is able to express she wants us there. I indicate to POA #1 that he has no authority to restrict visitors because it's not explicitly spelled out in the legal document. More words are exchanged with POA and his wife acting like fools when all I was doing was visiting and checking on the well-being of my grandmother whom they were isolating.
POA #1 gets POA #2 on the phone (my dad) who indicates what is the problem if she's just trying to visit. POA #1 quickly gets him off the phone because that is not helping his case. Then he points in our faces again indicating he is going file a restraining order against us. At that point POA #1 instructs the facility to call the police on me. The police arrive and POA #1 thinks he can waive this paper in the air the police will throw us out.... very much not so. Police indicate this is a civil matter and only my grandma or the facility can ask us to leave, not the POA.
POAs are trying to isolate my grandmother into submission, wont provide her with a phone to receive and make calls freely with family as she has done for many years, and she's a prisoner in her studio apartment on camera. Patients in HFAs have rights to visitation with individuals of their choosing, phone access, and a reasonable expectation of privacy.
Since her unstable POAs have this "catch me if you can" attitude, I posed the original question in this thread about POAs delegating tasks (paying bills, writing checks, misc. banking) because that is what they are doing, not to me, but to someone else who is not named in the legal document.
GranddaughterCG: Imho, they can delegate banking duties. However, make sure that you or the individual in question is a second 'looker' on the account. I had to do this as my own sibling was doing some shady stuff with our mother's bank accounts.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
However banking, deposits and bill paying can also be done by using their apps from the comfort of home
In fact a POA can say "I am not fully qualified to do this, so will hire a Licensed Fiduciary to do the bill paying". Such a person gets approximately 100.00 an hour to pay bills, keep records of finances, and etc.
A POA acts FOR the principal and in the manner the principal would act were he or she competent TO act. Any final decisions about sales (if allowed by his/her document) or investments will likely be passed by the general POA.
The POA document is written (hopefully) by a good attorney and it will SAY in no uncertain terms exactly what the POA can do.
"who's who " on the accountability scale; lots or potential here for mix up, who told who what, who understood what and what, blame games, feeling " used", reliability issues and on and on and on.
Why does the POA not want to do whatever it is they are wanting to delegate is one question I would ask ? Or is the POA have control issues etc etc.
Lots and lots to consider here.
Thanks for taking the time to look back - it's sure a long complex story. My grandmothers evil POA stepsons did a sneak attack and moved her out of her facility nearby and across the state. I arrived to visit (as I do 3-4 days a week) and she was missing. When asked they refused to tell myself and other family members where she was and would not provide a phone number to reach her.
Knowing how mentally unstable her POAs are, I took matters into my own hands quickly. I complied all clues I had, drove 2 hours and went on a surveillance mission to find her. Lo and behold I did find her. She was happy to see my mom (who was with me) and I. We visited for 1 hour. My grandmother put her finger to her mouth indicating she did not feel free to speak, and it appeared she could have been drugged, which led me to have concerns over possible chemical restraints. There is a camera in her studio apartment and she has no privacy. POA #1 busts into the room yelling at my mom and I pointing fingers at us telling us to "get out" Meanwhile, my grandmother is able to express she wants us there. I indicate to POA #1 that he has no authority to restrict visitors because it's not explicitly spelled out in the legal document. More words are exchanged with POA and his wife acting like fools when all I was doing was visiting and checking on the well-being of my grandmother whom they were isolating.
POA #1 gets POA #2 on the phone (my dad) who indicates what is the problem if she's just trying to visit. POA #1 quickly gets him off the phone because that is not helping his case. Then he points in our faces again indicating he is going file a restraining order against us. At that point POA #1 instructs the facility to call the police on me. The police arrive and POA #1 thinks he can waive this paper in the air the police will throw us out.... very much not so. Police indicate this is a civil matter and only my grandma or the facility can ask us to leave, not the POA.
POAs are trying to isolate my grandmother into submission, wont provide her with a phone to receive and make calls freely with family as she has done for many years, and she's a prisoner in her studio apartment on camera. Patients in HFAs have rights to visitation with individuals of their choosing, phone access, and a reasonable expectation of privacy.
Since her unstable POAs have this "catch me if you can" attitude, I posed the original question in this thread about POAs delegating tasks (paying bills, writing checks, misc. banking) because that is what they are doing, not to me, but to someone else who is not named in the legal document.