COVID Vaccine. Would it do more harm than good to my mom?

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COVID Vaccine. Would it do more harm than good to my mom?

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My Mom just turned 91 and is a resident in a nursing home. Her laundry list of medical issues are being maintained by medication. She is bed ridden because she has severe arthritis in her back causing her constant pain. She’s being given medication to help keep the pain under control without having her completely out of it. Yesterday her social worker called me to tell me that in 2 weeks the staff and patients were going to begin getting the COVID vaccine. She wanted to know if I wanted my Mom to get the vaccine. Given my Mom’s age and she’s not in the best of health and she is now recently having anxiety attacks and had to be put on Xanax I’m honestly not sure what to do. Would it do more harm them good? Can someone please help me with this decision or give me advice? I’d appreciate any advice or knowledge. Thank you.

Care Decisions Coronavirus Senior Health Vaccines

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Does your mom get the 'flu vaccine? Has she had the pneumonia and shingles vaccines?

I really can't see the downside of her having the COVID vaccine. There don't seem to be many side effects reported thus far.

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Arthritis and anxiety and chronic pain don't seem to be the types of underlying conditions that make covid more deadly to people & the elderly. I've had 2 very elderly relatives in facilities recover from covid, but one had a 4-week long slog that was very unpleasant but she did fully recover. That being said, I would have her take the vaccine since it's not a very pleasant way to go if it is going to take her. It also protects you when you visit her, and thus protects the other people that you come in contact with. Not an easy decision for those of us making choices for our LOs!

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I feel she should have the vaccine to protect herself from GETTING Covid-19 which would surely be a death sentence to her. I also feel she should get it so that she doesn't spread Covid-19 if she does get it, to those who are not yet vaccinated. I cannot imagine a reason not to get it, given the risk is so low to getting it. Wishing you good luck in your decision.

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The vaccine does not prevent the spread of the virus. The vaccine doesn't even prevent someone from catching the virus in the first place. Then what does the vaccine do? It stimulates the body to start making antibodies, T cells, and B cells against the virus, so that if and when the person catches the virus, they will have mild symptoms, maybe even no symptoms at all. But they can still catch the virus even if they had the vaccine, and they can still spread it to other people even if they have no symptoms. That's why even if all residents and staff in a facility are vaccinated, they still must wear masks and PPE. So in a typical residential facility where there are a dozen staff going in and out of the building every day, if everyone gets the vaccine, then ideally they are creating their own small version of herd immunity at the facility, even as staff keep bringing in more virus from the outside world, and even as staff and residents can still catch and spread the virus with few or no symptoms. But even with the vaccine, you get a community of 30 staff and residents who are all potentially asymptomatic carriers--which is exactly the same situation as before the vaccine. And since no one knows how long the vaccine confers protection, mostly likely everyone has to receive another round of vaccine doses 6 months from now (just when they were getting over their Bell's palsy side effect from the first round of vaccine doses). So don't start planning any potluck picnics yet.

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You could also decline for the time being and revisit it. It will depend on your communication with the facility and whether you trust them to know (and to tell you) that other opportunities to get vaccinated will be coming later. I am personally in a higher risk scenario myself, but I have declined the shot(s) for now until I see that those who want it and need it more than I do are indeed receiving it.

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Is your mother mentally competent? Can she decided for herself? For some nursing home residents, they may not want to be protected.....some have a terrible quality of life. If she’s able to, I would let her choose. She’s 91 and bedridden with a laundry list of issues....

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My Mom is showing signs of dementia so as of right now she is not competent to make the decision. I’ve had the conversation with her via FaceTime since I live in Florida and she lives in NY. During that conversation she completely forgot about what COVID was and didn’t understand how serious this virus is. So when I tried to bring her up to speed she said she didn’t want the vaccine because she already had her flu shot. She was too confused so I didn’t continue to frustrate her trying to help her understand about COVID. It’s why the social worker called me to make the decision. Then it was too late because my Mom ended up testing positive for COVID before the vaccine was available at the nursing home where she is a resident. It was 2 days away from being available.

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As far as what I've read, the elderly in homes are second only to healthcare providers. Whether your mom needs this vaccine or not--may not be an option if she wants to remain in the NH.

Personally, with both MIL and mom being 90 and in poor health, but living at home-they will both get the vaccine. If it means that in a few months Mom can go back to her only socialization, BINGO @ the Sr. Center, she'll be first in line.

Nobody really KNOWS how this is going to roll out. Personally, as someone who has not seen one set of grandkids in MONTHS, I cannot wait to get the vaccine.

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FWIW, my soon to be 94 y/o mother lives in a Memory Care ALF & will DEFINTELY be getting the vaccine asap. Her quality of life is greatly diminished by not getting in person visits anymore, no activities in groups, etc. Enough is enough. If the vaccine winds up killing her, which I seriously doubt, I'm okay with that because these elders cannot live like THIS anymore. She agrees.

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Both of my parents were in positions where they would have welcomed passing away from Covid. My dad understood it to be much like pneumonia which he’d always heard called “the old man’s friend” as it often causes a quicker and painless death in the very old. He didn’t dread the idea of Covid at all. My mother lived such a miserable existence in a NH that I’m positive she’d have been happy to have passed from it. They both believed there are fates worse than death. If your mother is capable of deciding, let her decide. There doesn’t seem to be a known downside to having the vaccine, so no harm other than a quick injection. But I can acknowledge that there are times that life isn’t worth trying so hard to preserve it, I witnessed it twice. I wish you peace in knowing what to do

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My sister and I are working with a lawyer to help us deal with our mother's estate, and this 64 y/o man recovered from COVID a few weeks ago. He said it wasn't so bad initially, but then it got much worse, and he added he wouldn't wish it on his worst enemy. Of course it varies among different patients, but from what I've heard it might be a lot more miserable than pneumonia. Maybe a very old, weakened person would succumb quickly before suffering so much from it, but I'll leave that to that medical professionals to provide information from their experience with patients (or even personal experience).

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My 98 year old mom in assisted living WILL definitely get the vaccine. First step in possibly getting back to “normal “ as far as visiting goes. The isolation caused by the shutdowns has been horrible.

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Thank you for your input. Unfortunately I live in Florida and my Mom lives in NY. My visits are FaceTime every week.

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I share your concerns. My mom is also 91, pretty frail, and has been fighting a leg infection since September. I don't know how well she'd tolerate a high fever if she developed that side effect. However, I don't believe the vaccine will be an option, as she's in a memory care facility and I don't see them allowing any of the residents to pass on getting it if they want to stay there.

There were no participants over the age of 75 in any of Pfizer's trials, so there's absolutely no data on how well the extremely elderly can tolerate the vaccine. I guess we just have to hope for the best.

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Thank you for your input. I guess that’s why I’m not certain if it’s a benefit or harm if my Mom gets the vaccine. She’s had several UTI infections. She’s had C-Dif several times and she’s just in a fragile state. I can’t imagine what constantly being on antibiotics for these medical issues have done to her system. Throw in the medications she is being given on a daily basis for her other medical issues.

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Hmm, I would lean towards not doing it. If it's required to stay there, then so be it.

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Thank you for your response. The social worker didn’t say it was mandatory. She just asked me if I wanted my Mom to get the vaccine.

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My Mama is 89 and a nursing home resident, also. She has become very depressed and easily upset through all of these nine months of being bedridden and no in room visitations allowed, although I visit her almost daily on the other side of her window and talk with her over the phone when it is available as she is unable to operate a phone by herself. She has Parkinsons Psychosis Dementia but she still knows me and knows some of what is going on with the pandemic when I try to explain to her why I cannot come inside to visit her and why I can't take her home with me to visit for a couple of hours. It is extremely difficult for her and I think that some days (if not all) she feels like a prisoner. She is currently being tested for a uti to see if she needs antibiotics since she is complaining of pain, but her doctor says she keeps a uti constantly and when they tried her on low dose antibiotics daily, it did not help her to stay well of uti's. So, one day at a time and lots of prayer and trusting the Lord, Who knows what is best in all situations. As for the Covid 19 vaccine, I am being told that when it arrives at Mama's nursing home, it will be given to the health care workers AND the residents. I do not know if there is an option to take or not take it. Mama usually gets the regular flu shot each year. When the nursing home asks each year if I want them to give Mama the regular flu shot, I always tell them to ask Mama and whatever she says is the answer.

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Thank you for your response. I appreciate it.

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I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t want her to have the vaccine. Please consider getting the vaccine for your mom and yourself.

Side effects from the vaccine are far less disturbing than being the patient who suffers terribly with COVID.

Sure, it’s true that some people don’t suffer much. Many do suffer horribly. Do you really want to take that chance? I wouldn’t.

Speak to the doctor or nurse and they will explain just exactly how the vaccine works. They will answer any of your questions.

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Thank you for your input. I appreciate it and will definitely look further into it.

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I can't tell you what to do, I can only say what I would do for my Mom and right now I wouldn't let her get the vaccine. I am waiting until more research comes out as far as side effects, etc. It's just too new.

I have done research on this vaccine and so far I don't like what I'm reading. The last place I believe is the media because they are only going to say positive things about it.

Just my thoughts at this time,
Jenna

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"JennaRose,"

I feel exactly like you do. I'm very concerned if the facility she resides in, will "force" her to get it in order to remain living there and I wonder if they will even ask for my consent before giving it.

My dilemma is my mom has already had COVID in April and survived. I'm still unclear as to whether she can actually get it again. I would be really upset if the vaccine ended up causing her any harmful side effects after we've fought so hard to get her this far - she is being released from hospice services Friday because she is doing better and Medicare will no longer cover it.

And I don't trust the mainstream media either. Nowadays, because they are in such fierce competition with one another, they say whatever they hear and put it out there so they can be the "first" to report it whether it's accurate or not. It's embarrassing whenever they have to correct something they said was factual and then it turns out not to be.

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My 93 year old mother died Monday of Covid-19 and I would have definitely agreed to her getting the vaccine if it could have prevented her dying gasping for breath, alone in a hospital. Pneumonia is NOT a peaceful death. The faster the residents and staff of care facilities get immunity the faster they can open back up to visits with family and friends.

As to the safety of the vaccine I was talking to a woman who worked for Pfizer for many years. She said the drug companies have been working on developing vaccines for Covid viruses for decades. Although this strain is new, the science is not.

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So sorry for your loss.

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Thank you everyone for your advise and input. The ironic thing here is today, this evening to be exact, I received a call from my Mom’s nurse at the facility. She informed me that my Mom was tested positive for COVID. I had done a FaceTime call with her and she was alert and she was laughing and joking around with me. She was a bit confused at times during our FaceTime conversation but that happens from time to time. I FaceTime with her at 2:00pm and at 7pm I received the phone call. Now it’s in God’s hands as to what will happen. I just pray that my Mom’s symptoms do not become worse and that she has no complications. As far as what the nurse told me my Mom has no fever or obvious symptoms other then her test came back positive. She’s very frail and had quite a few medical issues so I pray she weathers this storm without suffering any further. Again, thank you everyone for taking the time to comment and for your input.

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Praying for your Mom to have a mild case Rosie, and to pull through quickly. I don’t think anyone knows how long the antibodies last afterwards to protect against covid in the future or indeed if you can catch it again with a different strain. But if all goes well and she recovers quickly at least she will be safe for a time.

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Do you want to be able to visit your mother again? Do you want to not expose her unwittingly to Covid should you be asymptomatic? The side effects of this vaccine are like a regular flu shot. No it was not rushed...it was done quickly but properly according to all the research protocols used for all vaccines.. the SCIENTISTS have explained why they were able to do it more quickly and thank God! I don’t know about you but I don’t even want a mild case because it can have lasting effects on the heart and brain. Also you can get blood clots from it. And with your mother immobile this is a possibility.
I want my life back, I want to hug people again and see faces, I want the economy to get going, I want people to have jobs and stop from being hungry or evicted. We need to be on board like people were during WW2 doing their part for the country.
i say let her have the vaccine so that others in the facility are protected too. Think of the NH workers...what if they decided they weren’t going to get it? Would that be fair to the residents?

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Where did you get this information? TV or Social media?

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Let me just say I'm not having my 96 yr old Dad get the vaccine.

I think Seniors, especially being on all kinds of meds should not take the vaccine.

I think their chances of a reaction will be higher.

Plus if all the staff are taking it then that should deffiently cut down on them transmitting covid to the patients

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You say that you think their chances of a reaction will be higher. What is that thinking based on?

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Rosie, I read your post about you being informed that your mother tested positive for COVID. My sister, 85, with multiple health conditions and in a skilled nursing facility also tested positive about a month ago. She never had ANY symptoms and is the same as before she was tested positive. She was in quarantine for 2 weeks, but to me that didn't seem any different than the situation she is normally in, with the nurses coming to bring her food and medication. She is immobile, and they move her from bed to chair and back; she watches TV and reads. She is not well, but no worse for having COVID. Not every old person dies from it.
Also, I don't know if people who have had COVID will be getting the vaccine or not; I have heard that discussed, but have not heard the answer. Or perhaps they will not be the first in line to get it, since they will have antibodies for a while.

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Just a consideration: There are some people for whom the vaccine is not helpful...they have certain conditions, (extreme allergies and extreme inflammation, possibly from arthritis or other ailments.) (Most doctors are NOT up-to-date with the specifics of this new vaccine because they are too busy, or they, like us, go with what they've heard, mostly from the pharmaceutical companies.) BTW: Arthritis is inflammation and may trigger abnormal reactions to the vaccine. Do your own research. The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) does research with our tax dollars. Use them.

Any NH is responsible for ALL the residents in that home, so their decision to vaccinate everyone, is to protect all residents, taking precedence over the individuals who may or may not want the vaccination. The relatives of the patient are responsible for that one individual. If the relatives don't want the vaccination, the patient may have to leave the NH.

My point is: if my loved one is a NH patient, I have to be aware that my decision to vaccinate, or not, has consequences either way. It's not an easy decision but it's my decision ... and my consequence.

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Yet a resident (or the family) may decline flu and/or pneumonia vaccines. So they should be able to decline this vaccine, if desired. But "should" and "actual practice" may not coincide.

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RosieT, I have to make the same decision and probably several other readers do too. Thanks so much for posting this! I’ve gotten so much out of all the replies.
Mom nor I ever get the flu shot. She’s 88 and moderately frail, just strong dementia and unable to use her limbs much. She tested + in October, asymptomatic.
My only plan so far was to see how the facility felt about it, and if they wish she’d get it then we will. If they don’t have a preference I might skip it.
Good luck to you, and many of us, in this decision!

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If she tested positive for the virus she should not take the shot. She has antibodies for it!

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My daughter attends Brown University so I get their newsletter. They are involved in a lot of different studies. I was shocked when I read that they were granted money to "closely" research the effects of the vaccine on the elderly population. It stated in the article that the vaccine was not tested on the elderly in any of the trials. This alone I find alarming. It seems to me that the elderly continue to be an afterthought in this pandemic in so many areas. They are the most vulnerable to the virus but they would also be the most vulnerable to vaccine side effects given their health. I don't have advice as to whether I would give or not. For now, my mom is recovering from Covid so I don't have to make that decision for her yet.

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I work in med-tech and am familiar with the FDA approval process and clinical trials. The elderly may not have been included because participating requires consent and the ability to accurately answer the health-related questions that the clinicians ask during the trials. Also, Medical PoAs may have been reluctant to have their LOs be guinea pigs. Or, the trial required it be tested on people without other underlying health issues -- something more difficult to find in the elderly community.

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As an RN, I suggest that she get the COVID vaccine. The only reasons to exclude her from getting the vaccine are allergies to ingredients in vaccines and immunocompromised (such as cancer patients whose immune systems will not make antibodies).

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And as an RN, I suggest you read up on the vaccines available. My mom is 95 and she and our family are NOT getting the vaccine. There is much too much unknowns about this vaccine.

I had covid this summer and neither my mom, nor my other family living here got it.

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My mom and dad both got covid while living in the Veterans home. My mom tested positive on Thanksgiving and passed away on Dec. 5. Covid attacked her kidneys and heart and she went into organ failure and died. She hardly had any breathing problems with Covid. She had Lewy Body Dementia and was living a miserable life and I am glad that she passed peacefully but I would have gotten her the vaccine. My dad looks like he is going to make it through covid which is ironic because he has wanted to die for a long time, he is 88. Once Covid got into the veterans home it spread like wildfire, they kept things pretty clear of covid until October.

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When i went to college i had to get paperwork filled out saying i hsd all the normal childhood shots. I had proof for all except 1 shot. I can't remember what it was. Something like mumps or something. My pediatrician had died. He was in practice alone. No one to call. Nurse at school said just go get another shot. It would have been 25$. My doc said dont you dare, you need to get a titer for $300 to show if you have immunity. She said if I got another shot it could send my immune system into overdrive. My immune system could end up attacking my central nervous system and I could end up with MS or Lupis or something like that. I had no insurance but got the 300 titer. I had immunity. My doc said that nurse didn't know what she was talking about and she could cause a lifetime of misery for someone.
Think of Montell Williams. He got a ton of shots for diseases all at once, and he was 1 person who had an over active immune response. He now suffers from MS. A really nasty disease. You can slow it down but can't get rid of.

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While a titer was absolutely the thing to do in your circumstance, can’t imagine why the nurse gave you that recommendation, I’m not sure how it applies in this case. We know this high risk patient hasn’t had this vaccine so i don’t think it’s really the same dilemma or risk.

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My Mom is 80, living in ALF, had COVID19 in May and was asymptomatic. Everyone in my family will get the vaccines not only for our benefit but also to help the community achieve herd immunity which is the only way to eradicate the virus. It is a safe technology using Messenger RNA. It does not carry actual virus. Most of us need antibodies either by recovering from COVID or vaccination to achieve herd immunity so that we all can live our normal lives again. Please get the vaccines.

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Do your due diligence before making a decision on the vaccine.

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It’s too late. My Mom tested positive for COVID before the vaccine was available.

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They are now saying - Per Dr. Max Gomez on CBS news, that people with auto-immune diseases should hold back about getting the vaccine as it has not yet been studied. I have cancer and 4 AI diseases. My doctors are not pushing me to get the vaccine yet. Also, those with compromised immune systems, it is believed that the vaccine won’t be as strong as it needs to be to protect.

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You are correct, according to my DIL who is a Doctor AND on the Chicago Covid Vaccine Task Force.

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I am not sure but I think they have vaccines for the https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/17/health/nursing-home-resident-vaccines-partner-wellness/index.html elderly

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I’m sorry to hear your mother has Covid. Much of my family has had it including several in their 80’s with medical issues and all have done well in recovering, no one hospitalized. I realize that’s not a given, but will be hoping your mother becomes one with an easier time with it

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