COVID Vaccine. Would it do more harm than good to my mom?

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COVID Vaccine. Would it do more harm than good to my mom?

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My Mom just turned 91 and is a resident in a nursing home. Her laundry list of medical issues are being maintained by medication. She is bed ridden because she has severe arthritis in her back causing her constant pain. She’s being given medication to help keep the pain under control without having her completely out of it. Yesterday her social worker called me to tell me that in 2 weeks the staff and patients were going to begin getting the COVID vaccine. She wanted to know if I wanted my Mom to get the vaccine. Given my Mom’s age and she’s not in the best of health and she is now recently having anxiety attacks and had to be put on Xanax I’m honestly not sure what to do. Would it do more harm them good? Can someone please help me with this decision or give me advice? I’d appreciate any advice or knowledge. Thank you.

Care Decisions Coronavirus Senior Health Vaccines

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There’s really been very little testing to see if the vaccine is harmful to elders. During the trials the vaccine companies neglected to include elders. So really it’s anyone’s guess if the vaccine is safe for your mom. My mom is 72, retired nurse, and is not getting the vaccine because she doesn’t feel it’s safe for her.

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Cali,

Is this because of her recent cancer diagnosis or would she not get it anyway?

How is your mom doing?

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Even without the vaccine, a second case of coronavirus is extremely unlikely. Remember in New York City when 10s of thousands of people caught the virus in March and April? If second cases were common, New York City would've seen a surge of second cases in September and October--but they didn't. There are 200 documented second cases around the world--even that number is not an absolute because some researchers were defining a true "second case" in different ways.

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I am leaning on getting the vaccine for mom and me. The other family members usually go along with what I do, but it will be their decision and not mine. Her urologist will be getting it, one doctor told me her patient and entire family got it. They highly recommend the vaccine.

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"RosieT,"

Although I didn't comment to your question directly, on Dec. 16th, I replied to JennaRose's post about my concern with my mom.

As of late last evening, I now find myself in the same exact position as you and I have to make the decision apparently by Monday.

My mom had COVID (per a POSITIVE test result) in April and although she survived she has been under hospice care until they discharged her yesterday telling me she will never walk again.

The email from her ALF's Administrator said there will be a Walgreen's Clinic administering "a" vaccine on Dec. 28th and that she will be contacting me Monday for either an "accept" or "decline" response. The email said they don't know "which" vaccine it will be and sent two attachments of information. One from the CDC and one from Walgreen's with what looks like a side effects etc. sheet (as I need to sit down and read each one thoroughly).

I guess I'm just upset that 1)I have to make a quick decision 2) I don't know which one she would be getting and 3) How does it work with someone who already has had COVID - is it necessary?

Currently, my husband is trying to do as much research as possible - I just don't want anything to go wrong after all we've been through to get her to this point!

I'm curious as whether or not after all the responses you've received, if you've been able to make any decision or at least come closer to making a decision as to how to handle it with your mom (my mom will be 96 in Feb.)?

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Thanks for posting. I appreciate it. I’m leaning towards having my Mom get the vaccine. If my Mom recovers from having COVID and her doctor tells me she can still get it then I will have her get it. We’re taking it one day at a time at this point. Since she tested positive for COVID her symptoms have been next to none thank God. She only has a low grade fever. I’m really hoping her symptoms remain that way and she recovers. She’s in such a fragile state that anything recommended to help and protect her I will agree with. I hope you’re able to find some clarity and to help make your own decisions in your situation.

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Believing in freedom of speech as I do, in spite of having no constitutional right to it myself, I am not going to report this last post below.

No matter how tempting it might be.

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I commend you on your self-control in not screaming in print to the post saying vaccines cause AD. Distressingly, this fear is shared by a large demographic.

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Yes all vaccines are bad for elderly, if they do or do not have alzheimer's vaccines causes brain deterioration, leads to AD.

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And where is your scientifically and clinically vetted proof of this?

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This is a Q&A info from a hospital. Reviewed by Paul A. Offit, MD on December 15, 2020. Paul A. Offit, MD, is the Director of the Vaccine Education Center and an attending physician in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
Areas of Expertise: Vaccines
Dr. Paul Offit is a member of the FDA panel that recommended releasing the vaccines to the public under emergency authorization.
https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/making-vaccines/prevent-covid?fbclid=IwAR3eDi1FXSUcGYNU_3lEQDnO3ZfKGbAAJQGrE4WVtCgLQb7jl7R4O1EXTs4

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Here is a bit of important info from the Q&A linked above: "We do not yet know if the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines prevent infection or if they only prevent disease. Disease means people experience symptoms of illness.
Infection means that a virus can infect a person’s cells and reproduce, but the person may or may not have symptoms or be contagious."

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The vaccine does not actually prevent people from catching and spreading the virus. But you knew that, right?

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Beekee, the purpose of the vaccine is to prevent a person from getting the disease, Getting the disease means that the patient's body is serving as a host for the virus, and the virus is replicating (reproducing) inside the person's body, so new viral particles are created which then are breathed, coughed, etc. outside the body to infect additional people. If one is effectively vaccinated, any viral particles the person inhales or otherwise gets into the body will be stopped from reproducing (and thus the person won't "catch" the disease or suffer from any symptoms of the disease) and thus the patient won't be able to spread it to anyone else. Therefore, being successfully vaccinated is different from being infected but remaining asymptomatic.

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I have a doctor in my family who just had the vaccine yesterday, the follow up shot will be in 3 weeks. She is a Respirologist who works in a hospital. She has seen first hand the impacts of Covid. She has also had the impact of patients dying of other causes, without family at their bedside and had to make the phone call.

She is the person I will consult when the vaccine is more widely available. I for one will encourage Mum to get it, but after consulting the family member.

It is not likely that I will be eligible for the vaccine until the summer. I am content to wait, but I plan to take it when I can.

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I have a doctor in MY family, too. She is on the Chicago Board of SARS COVID Vaccination Protocol - representing her Pharmaceutical Company, of which she is the Director of 43 stores throughout the state. She is privy to all the research materials from all the companies currently manufacturing the CVAC as well as info shared with some of her close collegues at Northwestern University who are Virologists. I think she is WELL qualified to speak to everything related to the SARC & the VAC. I hope sharing some of this information helps - #1 The CVAC is NOT a cure. #2 The Virus can and will mutate - Just like the Influenza (A&B) does EVERY year. #3 Knowing how the CVAC works inside your body is critical information. Unlike the "Flu Shot" A protein is injected that "mimics" the SARSCOVID and "instructs" your body to attack it, thus, in essence,, "trains" your defense system. When/if your body actually comes in contact with the Virus (hopefully before it mutates) your body's defense system is "trained" to attack it. #4 NO Doctor/Virologist/Researcher knows all the Long Term Effects on the human body from the Covid or the Vaccination. There is suspicions that there may be nefarious long term side effects on some people, but I'm not at liberty to discuss that in this forum. #5 Check with your Doctor BEFORE getting the Vaccination to make sure you and your doctor are both on the same page. #6 Washing your hands frequently, sanitizing your household surfaces (all surfaces in kitchens and bathrooms, door knobs, light switches and don't forget your computer keyboards and cell phone screens) helps break down the outer "shell" surrounding the SARSCOVID Virus and thus removes its defenses so your cells can attack it. The mask and social distancing debate is still ongoing. #7 Most importantly - try to live your life as best you can and don't fret about the possibility of catching this. Your mental health is just as important as your physical health, they are intertwined. Best to All.

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Imho, as I do not profess to be a medical professional, I cannot nor will not tell your elder to get or not get the Novel Coronavirus vaccine.

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The question is for YOUR MOTHER'S DOCTOR. No one on this board is a doctor, pharmacist, or virologist and NO ONE knows the short term or long term effects of the COVID19 Vaccine. Period.

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Please. Stop with the not tested or mainstream media conspiracy crap. Sorry to be so blunt. If my loved one was in a nursing home, I wouldn't hesitate to have them get the vaccine. You give them the shingles vaccine, the pneumonia vaccine, the flu vaccine, more than likely they've had a polio vaccine, your kids have gotten the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine. So according to the poster below, 15 out of 43,000 people came down with bells palsy. That's .0003488372 or 35 one thousandths of a percent. The odds of your loved one getting bells palsy is practically nil. Do you want your elderly loved one to die ALONE of a deadly virus? It's NOT the flu.

Trust me. My husband is an epidemiologist who has worked in public health his whole career. My son is a physician in a large metropolitan hospital. You do not want to see what he has seen. He would get that vaccine in his eye if he could. The heartache of these dedicated and exhausted healthcare workers is overwhelming. Just vaccinating the nursing home workers is NOT enough. Every resident and visitor needs to be vaccinated. As a 2-time cancer survivor, I would get vaccinated tomorrow if it was available to me. Science is science. Trust it. All of you who are clapping and praising the front line Healthcare workers, then refusing to get your elderly loved one or yourself vaccinated, are just basically saying to them "FU". Again, sorry to be blunt, but this is a PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS. My physician son goes home at night and cries when he has to tell family members there just isn't anymore that could have been done. The anguish is daunting. Nurses holding up phones or tablets to their unconscious patients on ventilators so their family can say goodbye is agonizing. For all that is holy, get your loved one the vaccine.

Stop with the "mainstream media" crap. Stop getting your "news" from social media. If your not watching "main" stream media, what media are you watching? "Extreme" stream media? 300,000 Americans will have died this year of COVID-related symptoms alone. How many could have been saved by just wearing a simple mask? This isn't politics; it's science, plain and simple.

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THANK YOU!!! BEST ANSWER ON THE WHOLE PAGE!

Yes, it is a health situation! It’s called a PANDEMIC!

It has NEVER been about RELIGION or POLITICS!

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My mother is 88 and in much the same situation as your mother. My mother had Covid in October. She survived but in the last week 2 residents in the same NH have died and another 8 are positive. They have had several staff since this summer test positive. My mother was the first resident to get it. I am not hesitating in authorizing her to get the vaccine. Sure it probably won’t save her if reinfected but it may prevent others for suffering with this infection. As many of us as possible need to take this vaccine to prevent the spread. Just imagine if when the Salk vaccine was developed for Polio if people refused it because it wasn’t tested as much as they thought it should be. Millions of lives were saved from death and disability by taking that vaccine. We have the same opportunity to save people with this vaccine.

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In the 1950's my husband was in school when the Salk vaccine was tested on school kids. Half the students got a water shot the other half got the vaccine. He was one of the lucky ones, his two friends were not. Both contracted polio and were impacted the rest of their lives. Vaccines work. God bless.

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The vaccines have not been fully approved by the FDA. They are only conditionally approved for emergency use. During vaccine trials, Modern and Pfizer vaccinated a total of 43,000 people. Of those, more than 15 developed Bell's Palsy, a type of nerve damage seen in vaccines for other viruses. Other types of nerve damage syndromes are also associated with vaccines for other viruses. My mother's facility is not requiring the COVID vaccine, so I'm not giving permission for now. I've spent about 12 hours the past 3 days reading news articles, scientific journals, hospital Q&A's, and FDA and CDC reports. Then I have to factor in my mother's situation--age 82 and in pretty good health, she already had COVID back in June. She and everyone else in her building had a surprisingly mild case, all the same week, possibly because everyone in the building was exposed daily to a bit of virus for 4 months, before they became symptomatic in June. Their daily exposure to the virus for 4 months probably stimulated some level of antibodies, T cells, and B cells, so that when they were exposed to someone with a case of the virus in June, they developed only mild symptoms. For everyone here facing the same decisions, I feel your pain. I'm mentally and emotionally exhausted. I know I would have doubts and misgivings no matter what I decide.

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Best answer yet! Research, consult your Doctor or Pharmacist (they know all about the current vaccination research and protocol) and make up your OWN mind.

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To be very frank, we are at a point where all we can do is make tough choices. What you really need to do is leverage the time she has left and her quality of life without the vaccine against the detriments of being isolated in a facility because she is not vaccinated. At some point, we are not vaccinating to extend their life, we are vaccinating so people aren't dying of loneliness.

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This is a question for your mother's doctor. However, if it was may mother I would look at it this way. Yes she is bed ridden and on medication but she still can breathe, communicate and hopefully remains relatively pain free. If she gets the disease she could suffer horrible symptoms including being unable to breathe which is terrifying and painful. I don't believe in heroic measures to prolong a suffering life, which is why we have a DNR directive, but I also don't believe in leaving an individual exposed to additional suffering. As hard as it is to make this decision, I would say "yes" to the shot.

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I have read through this string with interest. I am going to throw in another consideration to the mix.

My husband is on Hospice, totally bed ridden and without any ADL's.He is in a board and care facility. He has been on Hospice for a year. I cannot take care of him as he is too big and totally unable to help. I was concerned with the issue a week or so ago and did some research but didn't find anything in relation to Hospice and COVID. I called his Hospice Nurse. She informed me that they don't give flue shots to Hospice patients and at that point didn't recommend this for him.

I am not concerned re side effects and if the situation were different would not question getting him the vaccine but there are other ethical questions involved. It will not help him. He has no quality of life and I do not want to make this harder.

I have discussed this with family and feel strongly that it would be better to give his doses to someone who needs it.

Last evening I got an email from his care facility saying that they were working with Wallgreens to get the shots. I am going to talk to Hospice again today and then email the home. At some point they may insist he have it for the safety of the others, which I understand.

This is such a dilemma - and I am so tired of making these awful decisions.
Hugs to all of you -- this is so hard.

Sandy L

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I’m sorry to hear your mother has Covid. Much of my family has had it including several in their 80’s with medical issues and all have done well in recovering, no one hospitalized. I realize that’s not a given, but will be hoping your mother becomes one with an easier time with it

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I am not sure but I think they have vaccines for the https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/17/health/nursing-home-resident-vaccines-partner-wellness/index.html elderly

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They are now saying - Per Dr. Max Gomez on CBS news, that people with auto-immune diseases should hold back about getting the vaccine as it has not yet been studied. I have cancer and 4 AI diseases. My doctors are not pushing me to get the vaccine yet. Also, those with compromised immune systems, it is believed that the vaccine won’t be as strong as it needs to be to protect.

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You are correct, according to my DIL who is a Doctor AND on the Chicago Covid Vaccine Task Force.

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Do your due diligence before making a decision on the vaccine.

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It’s too late. My Mom tested positive for COVID before the vaccine was available.

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My Mom is 80, living in ALF, had COVID19 in May and was asymptomatic. Everyone in my family will get the vaccines not only for our benefit but also to help the community achieve herd immunity which is the only way to eradicate the virus. It is a safe technology using Messenger RNA. It does not carry actual virus. Most of us need antibodies either by recovering from COVID or vaccination to achieve herd immunity so that we all can live our normal lives again. Please get the vaccines.

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When i went to college i had to get paperwork filled out saying i hsd all the normal childhood shots. I had proof for all except 1 shot. I can't remember what it was. Something like mumps or something. My pediatrician had died. He was in practice alone. No one to call. Nurse at school said just go get another shot. It would have been 25$. My doc said dont you dare, you need to get a titer for $300 to show if you have immunity. She said if I got another shot it could send my immune system into overdrive. My immune system could end up attacking my central nervous system and I could end up with MS or Lupis or something like that. I had no insurance but got the 300 titer. I had immunity. My doc said that nurse didn't know what she was talking about and she could cause a lifetime of misery for someone.
Think of Montell Williams. He got a ton of shots for diseases all at once, and he was 1 person who had an over active immune response. He now suffers from MS. A really nasty disease. You can slow it down but can't get rid of.

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While a titer was absolutely the thing to do in your circumstance, can’t imagine why the nurse gave you that recommendation, I’m not sure how it applies in this case. We know this high risk patient hasn’t had this vaccine so i don’t think it’s really the same dilemma or risk.

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My mom and dad both got covid while living in the Veterans home. My mom tested positive on Thanksgiving and passed away on Dec. 5. Covid attacked her kidneys and heart and she went into organ failure and died. She hardly had any breathing problems with Covid. She had Lewy Body Dementia and was living a miserable life and I am glad that she passed peacefully but I would have gotten her the vaccine. My dad looks like he is going to make it through covid which is ironic because he has wanted to die for a long time, he is 88. Once Covid got into the veterans home it spread like wildfire, they kept things pretty clear of covid until October.

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As an RN, I suggest that she get the COVID vaccine. The only reasons to exclude her from getting the vaccine are allergies to ingredients in vaccines and immunocompromised (such as cancer patients whose immune systems will not make antibodies).

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And as an RN, I suggest you read up on the vaccines available. My mom is 95 and she and our family are NOT getting the vaccine. There is much too much unknowns about this vaccine.

I had covid this summer and neither my mom, nor my other family living here got it.

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My daughter attends Brown University so I get their newsletter. They are involved in a lot of different studies. I was shocked when I read that they were granted money to "closely" research the effects of the vaccine on the elderly population. It stated in the article that the vaccine was not tested on the elderly in any of the trials. This alone I find alarming. It seems to me that the elderly continue to be an afterthought in this pandemic in so many areas. They are the most vulnerable to the virus but they would also be the most vulnerable to vaccine side effects given their health. I don't have advice as to whether I would give or not. For now, my mom is recovering from Covid so I don't have to make that decision for her yet.

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I work in med-tech and am familiar with the FDA approval process and clinical trials. The elderly may not have been included because participating requires consent and the ability to accurately answer the health-related questions that the clinicians ask during the trials. Also, Medical PoAs may have been reluctant to have their LOs be guinea pigs. Or, the trial required it be tested on people without other underlying health issues -- something more difficult to find in the elderly community.

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RosieT, I have to make the same decision and probably several other readers do too. Thanks so much for posting this! I’ve gotten so much out of all the replies.
Mom nor I ever get the flu shot. She’s 88 and moderately frail, just strong dementia and unable to use her limbs much. She tested + in October, asymptomatic.
My only plan so far was to see how the facility felt about it, and if they wish she’d get it then we will. If they don’t have a preference I might skip it.
Good luck to you, and many of us, in this decision!

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If she tested positive for the virus she should not take the shot. She has antibodies for it!

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Just a consideration: There are some people for whom the vaccine is not helpful...they have certain conditions, (extreme allergies and extreme inflammation, possibly from arthritis or other ailments.) (Most doctors are NOT up-to-date with the specifics of this new vaccine because they are too busy, or they, like us, go with what they've heard, mostly from the pharmaceutical companies.) BTW: Arthritis is inflammation and may trigger abnormal reactions to the vaccine. Do your own research. The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) does research with our tax dollars. Use them.

Any NH is responsible for ALL the residents in that home, so their decision to vaccinate everyone, is to protect all residents, taking precedence over the individuals who may or may not want the vaccination. The relatives of the patient are responsible for that one individual. If the relatives don't want the vaccination, the patient may have to leave the NH.

My point is: if my loved one is a NH patient, I have to be aware that my decision to vaccinate, or not, has consequences either way. It's not an easy decision but it's my decision ... and my consequence.

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Yet a resident (or the family) may decline flu and/or pneumonia vaccines. So they should be able to decline this vaccine, if desired. But "should" and "actual practice" may not coincide.

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Rosie, I read your post about you being informed that your mother tested positive for COVID. My sister, 85, with multiple health conditions and in a skilled nursing facility also tested positive about a month ago. She never had ANY symptoms and is the same as before she was tested positive. She was in quarantine for 2 weeks, but to me that didn't seem any different than the situation she is normally in, with the nurses coming to bring her food and medication. She is immobile, and they move her from bed to chair and back; she watches TV and reads. She is not well, but no worse for having COVID. Not every old person dies from it.
Also, I don't know if people who have had COVID will be getting the vaccine or not; I have heard that discussed, but have not heard the answer. Or perhaps they will not be the first in line to get it, since they will have antibodies for a while.

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Let me just say I'm not having my 96 yr old Dad get the vaccine.

I think Seniors, especially being on all kinds of meds should not take the vaccine.

I think their chances of a reaction will be higher.

Plus if all the staff are taking it then that should deffiently cut down on them transmitting covid to the patients

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You say that you think their chances of a reaction will be higher. What is that thinking based on?

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