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Someone told me the city would do a "paupers burial" and sell assets to of set expenses. Is this true? Seems many elders die flat broke w/o tending to death planning.
Your assumptions are pretty much correct. There are homeless people that die here every day. They are held for identification and to find any relatives, assets, etc.then after all that they are buried at a very minimal expense to the tax payers.
If there is family they WILL find you! In my state of MA the state pays a small amount to funeral home for burial.. The funeral home has to absorb the rest.. It can be difficult for the coroner to find a funeral home willing to take body.. Eventually one if found and the body is buried with small marker.. Massachusetts will not cremate a body without a family member signing, so that makes in more expensive for the funeral home.
There are 2 options. 1. Donate body to science, ashes (whats left) can be returned to family within 6-8 months. 2. The state takes body and creamates, puts ashes with all of the other unwanted and unclaimed.
Depending on your state and locality will depend on what funds are available. In Maryland you must apply/register to the Anatomy Gifts registery. They just don't take anybody and it must be done prior to death. Some local governments may have a small amount to help offset costs. Also, contact different funeral home in regard to cremation, you'll be surprised by the difference in cost. Explaiing the situation they will normally negotiate a fair cost with no extras and even prepay paid burial is option. Finding a funeral home that does their own cremation is a bonus.
Sounds like every state is different! In California, the Public Guardian, working w/ the county coroner takes over when there is no one to claim the body or to handle the final things that need to be settled. If you own nothing but household goods this is especially true, and its true if you owe Medicaid. There could be a rent deposit coming to the "estate", bills to pay, and the Public Guardian takes control of everything and handles it all. I know, because this will utlitmately happen to me. I have no family to claim my body, handle my affairs, nor assets - just debt to Medicaid.
Debt does not disappear with death. ANY assets a person has is used to pay those debts. Sorry, but you cannot escape your indebtedness just because you die and since everyone does die eventually, better be prepared with a will regardless of having any heirs or not.
Re Ferris 1's response: If someone has no assets, there is no point in having a will, because there is nothing to distribute. When a person dies without a will, any assets (in this case, none) are distributed in accordance with State intestate succession laws. While debts do not disappear, if there are no assets to pay them, creditors must write them off.
If you do not have the money, you might want to ask family members to help, but most of the time, they do not have any thing to contribute. Get in touch with the agency in you State to see what they offer, we have a "Potters Field" in Illinois.
Family may want to help or not, but they cannot be forced to contribute if funeral costs are too much to handle. Some people decide to let the State to handle the issue. Perhaps ashes may be scattered at sea.
Even with family, anyone who takes any responsibility may end up spending money. My DIL and her sister had been helping an uncle with groceries. Meds trips to dr. Etc, and even tho he had 6 or 8 siblings, the nieces paid for cremation, and when a brother got some funds the girls weren't aware of, he didn't offer to pay them back. Disappointing, but they would do it again if needed. My mom got a prearranged funeral when she was widowed and had to sell the family home, and I did it when I was widowed at about the same age and got a life insurance payout. I also, when I sold my home, started paying for long term health care insurance so my kids won't have to help finance my care and my daughter won't have to drive 300 miles to make sure I have the care. Hopefully husband and I will be able to help each other get the care when needed. He also has that insurance. I can't tell you the peace of mind it gives us! I have a son who lives near and my kids are all my hubby has too, but thankfully they both love him and would help him all they could, within reason, should I die first. I wonder about people who do NOTHING, as they see later years approaching and don't have some plan in place. Makes me think they didn't think much of themselves, and certainly no concern for those who would have to deal with their death when it happens. But I have sympathy for people with no family or caring friends, unless it is their choice to die that way. Life is like a maze, you see something puzzling at every turn.
I guess the money grubbers will do all they can but I really will not care because I will be dead. If you are alone your debt actually does die with you.
There has to be someone to tell people to make a donation to charity, or to do anything. I did NOT choose the plight I'm in (divorce, my husband sold the house out from under me, family is all estranged from each other due to dysfunction. I'm totally alone and isolated). So I have an emergency letter saying that all my household goods and my car are to go to the Public Guardian toward my Medicaid payback. Some people are on SSI and just have no choice and no relatives who want even their car or household goods!
Unless the remains are donated to science, the least expensive route is cremation. My husband and I discussed this long before he passed away, and we agreed upon cremation. He did not want a funeral, just a private memorial. He passed away on a Sunday, we had the viewing and memorial on a Wednesday and he was cremated as soon as the permit to do so was granted. The total cost was less than $900. I have his ashes and will keep them until I pass away. I have made my wishes known in writing that after my remains are cremated, they along with my husband's remains are to be scattered together over my parents' graves.
Those with assets under, about, I think, $100,000 ?, don't need a will; States assume what's left will either be liquidated to pay for Care, or to pay for disposing of remains, or distributed to next of kin. State is first-in-line after the Feds, for repayment, if there's any assets left at death. State or family can opt to have a pauper's burial of whole remains, OR, a low-cost cremation. OR, the body might be donated to a service that harvests tissues....those do the whole process for free--body pick-up, disbursal of tissues for researches, then they cremate remains---they will then either return the cremains to the family, or, they will deal with the cremains. We located a very low-cost Cremation service, several years ago: "American Burial and Cremation", that only charged about $700, which was a chunk less than any other cremation service--but that company is a fly-by-night too--sometimes they are not in business, other times they are in business--we got lucky! Mom chose to donate her body for science research; we found a company located in Portland, Oregon. Documents needed signed/ notarized by the person or their POA. The company contracts with a local mortuary to pick up the body and transport. They have a weight limit: 250 lbs., and this company covers/services most of the Western States. States may or not, connect with companies like this to take care of pauper's remains. Some, if not all, States will go to great lengths to collect on debts to the State. For instance, CA has been known to attach a senior citizen's SSI check even though that check was only a few hundred dollars per month---CA was after him for non-payment of child support from over 40 years prior--took them decades to locate him in WA. CA also tried to attach his current spouses' SSI check--they wanted it all as fast as they could get it. CA is allowed to attach all sources of income to the maximum available, and, allows ALL collectors to come at a person simultaneously. CA's attachment meant that his medical care became a problem for WA State; WA State then also tried to come after his now-widow's SSI, though she was able to negotiate small payments, and finally got it dismissed, since she had not been married to him until decades after that debt happened, and in another State. IF an elder Dies with nothing, and the widow[er] receives some later inheritance they'd not known about, the State may attach that: We got notification that Mom's last spouse had bought a small policy when he was young; Mom becomes the beneficiary as his remaining heir...AFTER the State he died in, collects whatever they have owing on his account. IF he collected any welfare while in another State, they also can come after that inheritance. There's another small policy, but trying to collect anything from that is a problem: he bought that one when he was 40 y.o., paid on it awhile, then lost paperwork, may have stopped paying on it. I just learned that ALL insurance companies pay into a pool to cover "lost" or "dropped" policies. Hoards of fly-by-night insurance/assurance companies, regularly get bought out by others, but policies get lost in the shuffle. This one has morphed through several companies, getting essentially lost in the shuffle. Most companies contacted so far, claim that number doesn't exist in their files. Having paperwork to prove the policy, is helpful. AND, while companies often try to wiggle out of it, they MUST pay on those claims, as long as paperwork proves policy, they must do due diligence to find the lost policy, and pay on it, if it had been paid on at all. EVEN IF they can't find traces of it, and a holder shows paperwork, the Pool must pay on it....but Insurance co's will go to great lengths to avoid paying, usually--including telling people "that policy is defunct, no longer valid". But, this person said, IF the policy was paid into, there is money in the Pool to cover it, so keep pressing for it to be paid out. ...and either or both of two States may yet pop out of the landscape to collect those inheritances before Mom sees a dime. She's now in a third State, living on her tiny SSI; pretty sure she will welcome the small sum, IF it works out. Though I'm surprised CA hasn't come after Mom for repayment of welfare provided several decades back...that could still happen, if the first example is any example.
For FREE cremation, do body donation--those companies pay for it, as they profit from selling marketable tissues for research. There are cheap cremation services, if you get lucky and can find them. Other cremation is spendy...price depends on how well the funeral association in a State has locked up the business in their favor.
Spreading ashes on parents graves? Better learn for certain, in writing, whether the Cemetery allows that. Cremains take up a substantial amount of space, so spreading cremains for even one person, on a single grave, will LOOK like cremains--a lot of dust.
Cemeteries around here have even Approved, then after-the-fact of a person being buried in a pre-paid grave, DIS-approved of a headstone that was higher than the grass grew...they'd changed their policies....the woman who bought her mom's headstone for her mom, now has it parked along a main road, on her own driveway-- lots of traffic--every day for several years now, anyone passing by knows what jerks the cemetery became.
So make sure you get permission in writing, for spreading ashes anywhere a permit might be needed. Scattering in wild spaces is usually no problem--as long as cremains go through a crusher, to prevent identifiable bone bits being found anywhere. Most crematoriums automatically do that--but it's a good policy to check in advance, to make certain they do.
I live in a Massachusetts. I want to correct the person who said when they are finished with the body it is cremated. That is not true. They offer burial too. But, I live in the Boston area and also worked as a RN. Not all medical schools will take a body. They have enough bodies and won't accept any more. You also have to understand they can keep a body up to 3 years. Cremation in MA cost $1000 to $1500. In a nursing home it is often suggested to save at least at $2000 for burial. Many of the good nursing home do have funeral plots and you also can have a welfare funeral. My mother died in 2011. She had a plot for 2 she bought in 1978, it cost her $350. Now 1 person plot costs $3000 in a Catholic cemetery. It cost my family $2000 to open the grave. My father is there too. My mother wanted a wake and funeral and to be buried. The total cost of her funeral was $17,000 and change. I find body burials barbaric. The cemeteries are running out of space and are now offering bodies that have been creamated to be buried in a two person plot. 2 to 3 cremations can be buried in a family plot we once thought was full it is much cheaper too. I want to be creamated and buried with my parents.
$255.00 paid to Surving spouse by SSA. Please check your states Register of Wills office for your states requirements regarding Wills. A will is one of the most important of all legal documents. It is the legal declaration of a person's intentions and desires that he directs to be carried out after his death. I have never heard of the first $100,000. being waive without a Will. An asset, is an asset, is an asset. Even dispersering ones personal belongings should be addressed. It is Federal Law that Social Security benefits, SSI payments, cannot be garnished by any creditor. If an overpayment of benefits, child support, owe federal taxes (15% can be taken) or federal student loan or agency they can attach funds over $750.00. If government check is deposited in an account that other funds are deposited in then that account could be seized. Keep the accounts separate. If a person receives monies from Medicaid that state has a right to recoup their money after the person dies. It's only fair. I often hear, let the state pay for their nursing home care, well you and I are paying for that care to a tune of about $8,000.00 or more a month per person. The trend now is to keep people out of the nursing homes and in the community where individuals are happier and it's cheaper. All part of the Affordable Health Care Act-Community First Choice (persons with disabilities) & Community Option (Long term care).
Thanks for ALL the detailed advice. A bit overwhelming. The elder is my "ex" - I am an unmarried senior baby boomer gal. We are divorced exactly because he has always refused to take life seriously, plan, prepare and still at 81 he thinks he will never die! Its pathetic. Anyway, as an ex I am not responsible in any way for him. He is around and worrisome in the small town we retired too years ago. The local yokels still look to me as though I am responsible. It's a battle I can't win. Thanks again.
It is $300.00 here now. I want to be cremated and my urn placed in an above the ground urn building. The thought of a body being buried underground creeps me out. I hate the thought that my mom and dad are under the ground.
When my husband died several years ago, as he wished I donated any parts of his that could be used (which was quite a lot), then he was cremated. Cost was less than $700. Then a few weeks later (when friends and relatives were able to get good airfare and arrange to come), we had a heck of a memorial service at his favorite fish camp with bbq, beer, music and lots of laughing and crying. Then we went out in boats and scattered his ashes at his favorite fishing spot on the lake. The party cost about $1100. Total for the whole thing, less than $1800 and the memories of people being able to tell stories and share remembrances is priceless. On the other hand, when my boyfriend's sister died a couple of years ago, the funeral cost over $22,000. It was a miserable, sad, drawn-out event with family in-fighting and a load of debt that nobody could really handle. My family goes for cremation and memorial services and his family goes for expensive funerals and long-term debt. His mother is 92 and in bad health. I'm hoping I can convince him, when the time comes, to see things my way.....
JUST AN FYI ~ Donating body parts after death is wonderful: if your body parts are still functioning and not old. I recall (?) reading that after 75 they won't take organ donations. My issue is with someone "81".....lung cancer survivor and weaken by old age. Might be good to research the age factor in donating organs etc. Thanks for your info. Good luck.
Also.....some religious folks are highly, highly against "organ" donation. Many Christians do not like anything outside the "normal" ground burial, as is customary. My state is very, very conservative and strict Christanity prevails in my tiny town. No forward thinking allowed!
Cameo this was in Md but its a nationwide program. I heard about it from hospice when they came to visit mom in the hospital. We had already made arrangements with a funeral home in Virginia but this was something I know mom would have approved of. She had been signed up for years for organ donation, AGR will work with that also.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
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APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
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If there is family they WILL find you! In my state of MA the state pays a small amount to funeral home for burial.. The funeral home has to absorb the rest.. It can be difficult for the coroner to find a funeral home willing to take body.. Eventually one if found and the body is buried with small marker.. Massachusetts will not cremate a body without a family member signing, so that makes in more expensive for the funeral home.
Everyone gets buried eventually...
My mom got a prearranged funeral when she was widowed and had to sell the family home, and I did it when I was widowed at about the same age and got a life insurance payout. I also, when I sold my home, started paying for long term health care insurance so my kids won't have to help finance my care and my daughter won't have to drive 300 miles to make sure I have the care. Hopefully husband and I will be able to help each other get the care when needed. He also has that insurance. I can't tell you the peace of mind it gives us! I have a son who lives near and my kids are all my hubby has too, but thankfully they both love him and would help him all they could, within reason, should I die first.
I wonder about people who do NOTHING, as they see later years approaching and don't have some plan in place. Makes me think they didn't think much of themselves, and certainly no concern for those who would have to deal with their death when it happens. But I have sympathy for people with no family or caring friends, unless it is their choice to die that way. Life is like a maze, you see something puzzling at every turn.
States assume what's left will either be liquidated to pay for Care, or to pay for disposing of remains, or distributed to next of kin.
State is first-in-line after the Feds, for repayment, if there's any assets left at death.
State or family can opt to have a pauper's burial of whole remains,
OR, a low-cost cremation.
OR, the body might be donated to a service that harvests tissues....those do the whole process for free--body pick-up, disbursal of tissues for researches, then they cremate remains---they will then either return the cremains to the family, or, they will deal with the cremains.
We located a very low-cost Cremation service, several years ago: "American Burial and Cremation", that only charged about $700, which was a chunk less than any other cremation service--but that company is a fly-by-night too--sometimes they are not in business, other times they are in business--we got lucky!
Mom chose to donate her body for science research; we found a company located in Portland, Oregon. Documents needed signed/ notarized by the person or their POA. The company contracts with a local mortuary to pick up the body and transport. They have a weight limit: 250 lbs., and this company covers/services most of the Western States.
States may or not, connect with companies like this to take care of pauper's remains.
Some, if not all, States will go to great lengths to collect on debts to the State. For instance, CA has been known to attach a senior citizen's SSI check even though that check was only a few hundred dollars per month---CA was after him for non-payment of child support from over 40 years prior--took them decades to locate him in WA. CA also tried to attach his current spouses' SSI check--they wanted it all as fast as they could get it. CA is allowed to attach all sources of income to the maximum available, and, allows ALL collectors to come at a person simultaneously.
CA's attachment meant that his medical care became a problem for WA State; WA State then also tried to come after his now-widow's SSI, though she was able to negotiate small payments, and finally got it dismissed, since she had not been married to him until decades after that debt happened, and in another State.
IF an elder Dies with nothing, and the widow[er] receives some later inheritance they'd not known about, the State may attach that:
We got notification that Mom's last spouse had bought a small policy when he was young; Mom becomes the beneficiary as his remaining heir...AFTER the State he died in, collects whatever they have owing on his account.
IF he collected any welfare while in another State, they also can come after that inheritance.
There's another small policy, but trying to collect anything from that is a problem: he bought that one when he was 40 y.o., paid on it awhile, then lost paperwork, may have stopped paying on it.
I just learned that ALL insurance companies pay into a pool to cover "lost" or "dropped" policies.
Hoards of fly-by-night insurance/assurance companies, regularly get bought out by others, but policies get lost in the shuffle. This one has morphed through several companies, getting essentially lost in the shuffle. Most companies contacted so far, claim that number doesn't exist in their files.
Having paperwork to prove the policy, is helpful.
AND, while companies often try to wiggle out of it, they MUST pay on those claims, as long as paperwork proves policy, they must do due diligence to find the lost policy, and pay on it, if it had been paid on at all.
EVEN IF they can't find traces of it, and a holder shows paperwork, the Pool must pay on it....but Insurance co's will go to great lengths to avoid paying, usually--including telling people "that policy is defunct, no longer valid".
But, this person said, IF the policy was paid into, there is money in the Pool to cover it, so keep pressing for it to be paid out.
...and either or both of two States may yet pop out of the landscape to collect those inheritances before Mom sees a dime.
She's now in a third State, living on her tiny SSI; pretty sure she will welcome the small sum, IF it works out. Though I'm surprised CA hasn't come after Mom for repayment of welfare provided several decades back...that could still happen, if the first example is any example.
There are cheap cremation services, if you get lucky and can find them.
Other cremation is spendy...price depends on how well the funeral association in a State has locked up the business in their favor.
Spreading ashes on parents graves?
Better learn for certain, in writing, whether the Cemetery allows that.
Cremains take up a substantial amount of space, so spreading cremains for even one person, on a single grave, will LOOK like cremains--a lot of dust.
Cemeteries around here have even Approved, then after-the-fact of a person being buried in a pre-paid grave, DIS-approved of a headstone that was higher than the grass grew...they'd changed their policies....the woman who bought her mom's headstone for her mom, now has it parked along a main road, on her own driveway-- lots of traffic--every day for several years now, anyone passing by knows what jerks the cemetery became.
So make sure you get permission in writing, for spreading ashes anywhere a permit might be needed.
Scattering in wild spaces is usually no problem--as long as cremains go through a crusher, to prevent identifiable bone bits being found anywhere. Most crematoriums automatically do that--but it's a good policy to check in advance, to make certain they do.
I have never heard of the first $100,000. being waive without a Will. An asset, is an asset, is an asset. Even dispersering ones personal belongings should be addressed.
It is Federal Law that Social Security benefits, SSI payments, cannot be garnished by any creditor. If an overpayment of benefits, child support, owe federal taxes (15% can be taken) or federal student loan or agency they can attach funds over $750.00. If government check is deposited in an account that other funds are deposited in then that account could be seized. Keep the accounts separate.
If a person receives monies from Medicaid that state has a right to recoup their money after the person dies. It's only fair. I often hear, let the state pay for their nursing home care, well you and I are paying for that care to a tune of about $8,000.00 or more a month per person.
The trend now is to keep people out of the nursing homes and in the community where individuals are happier and it's cheaper. All part of the Affordable Health Care Act-Community First Choice (persons with disabilities) & Community Option (Long term care).