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My brother and I entered into a care agreement for my mother for a monthly amount for her care, she lives with him. Last year my sister in law sent me a text asking if I was available to watch mom on Thursdays from 11-3 and if I couldn’t she would be looking into care, could cost 25-35 an hour. I let her know that would not work for me. They proceeded to have this helper come over to help. I received a text from my brother a few months ago telling me that they had been paying this person cash from their own account and would be accessing my mothers joint account to recoup the cost. He never did complete that transaction. My mother passed recently and we are settling the estate and again he is referencing that he will be wanting to recoup these expenses. I am unsure how much this will amount to. He was receiving a monthly payment for care for my mother, should additional charges for care be added on when they are not caring for her during these times. He has also received money from his employer for her care at some points. I have no idea how much he claimed on those benefits. Thoughts?

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Thoughts? My condolences on the loss of your mom.
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Unctoy4 Aug 7, 2024
Thank you
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You do not need to agree now to something you never did agree to.
I would ask him just how much in expenses he is hoping to recoup, and just how/or from WHOM he thinks this money would/should come. Legally, if you are executor, you will be acting now according to the Will (or Trust if that is the case) and you need not include any "he said/she said" expenses.

This all depend upon how much you care about your brother and your SIL, and etc. Depends upon what mountain you are willing to die upon.
That is to say, legally he has no standing unless this is written into the contract. Morally is up for you to decide according to your own moral code.
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Unctoy4 Aug 7, 2024
I will probably say nothing for the reasons you mentioned, just seeing if I was that off base with my conflicting feelings about his penny pinching in the big picture. Long story……….
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I think when this hired outside the family caregiver was being paid that it should have come out of your mother’s account to begin with , while it was occurring .

Just because family are the paid caregiver doesn’t mean they can’t get breaks like any other job and have hired help from the outside cover for a few hours a week and be paid for by Mom .

The family care agreement should have been amended to reflect the change . A prorated deduction for the 4 hours a week could have been figured out for the family’s pay which would have saved alittle of Mom’s money .

Your Mom still should have paid the full amount of the outside help coming in . No job requires the employee to pay for another employee to cover their time off .

You can’t have it both ways. If you set up a paid care agreement , it’s just like a job . Your Mom pays all employees for the hours they work .

Also it’s not like they did this behind your back. They told you . Someone had to be with Mom
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Unctoy4 Aug 7, 2024
My brother and SIL took on my mothers care and have went through 5 years of hell through it and I am thankful they came through with their health somewhat intact, although my brother did become diabetic. I had told them in the beginning that it would be what it was and they soon realized it was. My son and I would help relieve them when we could. She lived across the street from them prior. I watched her at their home for a month so they could travel to Italy for their daughter’s wedding. This help that I speak of was at the end of her life and they would not call hospice in for help as I recommended. Hospice was only brought in 4 days before she passed. The nurse mentioned how they waited so long. I truly will probably not question this but my brother is penny pinching other estate financial issues and what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. He is well off and the penny pinching puts me off. I will not ruin the relationship we have left with money related issues. My mother always said she didn’t want to be cared for by her children and I told her to put it in writing a long time ago as my brother would do what he wanted and made him feel good about himself. I took care of my father at the end and he was much more manageable. I did not ask for compensation. He had to die in my home as my mother did not want hospice nurses in her home. I really just wanted some feedback to see if my feelings were really that off base. It is unfortunately a lot of families reality in the end of life process and it is sad that the money part seems to be always lurking around in the shadows even for myself included.
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I'm wondering if mom was living with your brother, if so then I'd say he is right, 24 7 care is much different than going for a few weeks,

Your brother should of kept records for the caregiving he paid? Did you realize she was getting extra care from care giving?

To be completely honest on my feelings towards the work I do for my mother. I go about 3 days a week and In the end Im walking away from it all. I honestly want nothing, because I'm not going to get involved in the money aspect of it all. I do it because I want what's best for mom. Honestly I don't care if every penny is gone towards her caregiving. That's just me though. Everyone is different, I see to many people arguing over this and that. My biggest worry is her wellbeing.

So so about your mom
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BurntCaregiver Aug 7, 2024
@Anxietynacy

I feel the same way. I couldn't care less if everything goes towards paying hired help or a care facility.
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Who is the Executor? Was brother POA if so he needed to keep good records. Like having a time sheet showing hours worked @ dollars an hour and aide signing she received the money. Or, him withdrawing what he paid the aide. You may just have to take his word he paid her for so many days at this amount.

By entering into a care agreement does this mean that you were giving him money to care for Mom? Who was paying him to care for Mom because if he did get paid for those hours then that money is used to offset the cost of an aide. He is double dipping IMO if he takes money from the estate and was paid too. Now if he was paid, lets say $15.00 an hour and the aide cost $25 then he is entitled to the difference of $10.

Never heard of an employer paying for care of a LOs mother. Did brother have time built up. Such as he was not paid for overtime but he was allowed comp time to use as he pleased. He used it by taking off work early.

Like Alva said, there are just somethings you have to let go. For Probate though, you may need receipts. I got my out of pocket back, but I had receipts to back me up.
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Unctoy4 Aug 7, 2024
They were being paid from my mother’s funds in a joint account held by mother, brother and myself. He is now accounting for expenses, supplies and care costs from that account. He was being paid a monthly amount $3000mo for care and living expenses in his home. That he would gift to himself up to the annual gift amount.
The employer thing was some sort of benefit? My SIL said it could only be claimed/used during times where he was present at work, working. They would have to account with name and ssn I believe.
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If your brother has paid out-of-pocket for any of your mother's expenses including additional caregiving from hired help, then he should definitely be paid back. You may have to take him at his word and you should.

If your brother and his wife were trustworthy enough for you to agree to have your mother (who needed care) living with them and having them provide it, I'd say you should take him at his word when he says he is owed money. He is.
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Unctoy4 Aug 7, 2024
The help could have come from Hospice which they did not contact for help until 4 days before her death. I am not questioning his accounting of his expenses.
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The only thing that Employers, in my experience, may provide is an account where pretaxed money is put away for care. Such as daycare or may care of a loved one. Its the employees money not the employers.
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