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Hi! I am wondering if anyone has some experience with independent living facilities? My grandmother has panic attacks (that we are trying to get her to manage but she struggles) and her independent living facility knows about them. She needs no physical help, she is very active and fairly healthy. We have her working with a therapist and she is medicated, and we have med reminders through the facility to help her manage. Yet, she still has panic attacks a little more than occasionally. They are very scary to her and to anyone who is around her (she can get dramatic; meaning she shakes and says she hurts all over) but if someone just talks to her she gets over them in about 10 minutes. We didn't put her in assisted living because she needs no assistance physically and her memory is fine. The facility has called the ambulance on her no less than 6 times in the past 2 and a half months and now those bills are racking up. We are moving her to somewhere different in 2 weeks but have a very sour taste from the facility. We asked that they just call us so we can either diffuse her or bring her to the hospital ourselves and they only did this once. They are happy to call me to tell her that the ambulance came...but not to tell me that she needs one? I called their coroporation to ask about this but didn't get a clear answer...any advice or similar situations? What did you do? What kind of facility did you move your person to or what did you do to alleviate this?

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Well, look at it from their point of view. What if she's truly ill one of those times and they 'talk her down', and she actually should have had medical help quickly? You say that she's presenting with physicial symptoms and that she's so scared that it's unnerving to see. The IL office staff aren't qualified to perform a medical assessment, and I'm willing to bet that they are acting within the scope of the contract signed for IL. Now if you could get her to call you first, you could talk her down, but again, if something's truly happening then that's not a good solution. Even at AL if she's presenting with acute symptoms they may call for EMS. What is the source of the panic and are these attacks escalating?
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hpandpn Aug 2021
Source is her having to care for my grandfather who is no longer with her, she also has a traumatic past...she has been in a psych hospital several times, it does not seem to fix it...I am wondering if a group home might need to be where she goes...they have patterns for sure, especially because now she really doesn't have much control over her life due to past financial decisions, and when she doesn't take her medication obviously they get worse
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I think I agree that it's probably a liability issue for the facility. I've heard from other sufferers that it can feel like a heart attack or their dying, and if she's having other "symptoms" like shaking (and who knows what else) AND she is actually a senior citizen, all it would take is 1 time for them to not call the ambulance first if it was an actual medical emergency.

Have you considered a medical call button service (the type she'd wear) so she can press it herself? My elder aunt in FL has one where there's a speaker phone in one room that calls back and talks to her remotely to assess the situation. Sometimes it's because her sister has fallen and the EMTs then will come to help her up. No trip to hospital necessary if she says so.

You posted in a reply that she doesn't take her medication. Why? Is it because she's not remembering? I think she may need a cognitive/memory exam so that you can know for sure if she needs a higher level of care. Cognitive decline is often not obvious to those who are not looking for its signs. I hope you can help her find a solution that works for her.
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hpandpn Aug 2021
She has a button, she refuses to use it...she thinks we will get mad at her, and she is a fairly non-compliant person with medication as she eschews modern medicine...so she will incosistently take her medications, which is why we have the facility remind her (this is included in their care contract), I do have an exam scheduled for her in October, they were booking out 4 months in advance -_-

The problem is she is convinced that her panic attacks are something physical that is wrong with her and it's taking a lot for her to understand that they aren't. I am trying to figure out what to do with her other than hand her over to the state at this point
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An Independent Living facility is one in which the resident is in need of NO assistance, outside of housekeeper and meals. It's much like an old-fashioned boarding house.

Clearly, this lady is in need of assistance. If nothing else, help/reminders to take meds (anti-anxity meds work best if taken regularly, not in response to panic--hearing this from a geriatric psychiatrist reassured my mom that taking them regularly did not make her an addict) and the reassurance of someone medically trained nearby.

The assumption in IL is that if the resident is having difficulties, the response is exactly what it would be in an apartment building, office or on the street. Call 911.

Clearly, this person needs a higher level of care. I am glad to hear you are moving her.
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She does need assistance. She needs someone to make sure she gets her meds. She needs a nurse or LPN near by who knows how to help her. I would chose an Assisted Living. She really can't live alone with her problem. The AL near me separates those residents who need Memory Care from the residents that have no cognitive problems.
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BarbBrooklyn Aug 2021
Clearly!!
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HP, I know you say that GM has had a lot of trauma in her life, but has anyone looked at her cognitive skills?
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A facility can not take the chance that this is "just" a panic attack.
If the symptoms resemble anything at all that is serious then they HAVE to call.
Independent Facility Staff can not aid the resident in any way. It is INDEPENDANT living.
What you might want to do is have forms filled out that NO medical intervention should be called at anytime. This means NO 911 calls at all. So if there was a slight chance that she were having a heart attack, stroke, fell and broke a bone she would remain as she is until you came to then call 911.
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I highly recommend board and care facilities.

Do your homework and find one with high functioning residents. My dads had the blind, mobility challenged, paralyzed and severe alcohol induced dementia but, they could all have a conversation and participate in activities. Mostly they could just be friends for one another.

Has anyone checked her for nutrient and mineral deficiency? Many times our bodies are lacking vital nutrients to properly function and panic attacks can be caused by this.

I know it is frustrating and hard to imagine how she feels but, please try to find an alternative medicine doctor that will verify that she is actually healthy and the best part, nothing for her to fight because it is not modern medicine.

Best of luck finding her the best care for her situation.

Oh, unless she is incompetent, the state isn't going to intervene. She has the right to how she is living as long as she can understand and care for her needs.

Oh, try to buy her a medical transport policy if the area she is moving to doesn't provide city services. It is much cheaper then a single bill for transportation and they will cover flight for life in many of them.
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What a huge waste of EMS time and resources! However, any facility is going to call an ambulance. Moving her is not going to solve that problem. Facilities are not like parents, who talk their children down when they're having a panic attack. Your grandmother needs more help than independent living is designed to provide.
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