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By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment. You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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Mostly Independent
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I sit tight, do not help and wait patiently for something to happen. It will.
My brother and I tried for 10 years to get my mother to move in AL, she lived in NC in a mountain home with 13 steps up, she lived alone and watched game shows all days, she refused to move near us or into AL.
Finally she had a slight stroke and became afraid to be alone at night, we sprung into action. Moved her to FL and into AL.
The irony is that she loves it and now wishes she had done it years ago, new friends, activities, no housekeeping to do, no food to cook.
She was almost 94 when we moved her in she will be 99 in February.
We had to lay in the weeds and wait, she finally realized that she was no longer independent and able to care for herself.
Back off, don't be your parents crutch, enabling is not the answer.
This is key…..NOT to be a crutch and supply a false independence . Otherwise the elder will say , they are doing fine and don’t need hired help coming in or don’t need to move from their not elderly friendly homes.
Sadly, we are doing the exact same thing with my MIL.
Just waiting for the 'big fall' which may come as a actual fall, a heart attack, a stroke or just old age.
A solid year of propping her up has burned all family to a crisp.
We get LOTS of 'put her in a home' answers and that isn't going to happen, until she's deemed unable to make her own decisions. Nobody's pursuing that avenue, so it's just wait for the big bang.
"I am caring for my mother... who is 100 years old, living in independent living with age-related decline, hearing loss, and incontinence."
Often, the beginnings of dementia appear as unreasonable stubbornness. Is anyone her PoA? If so, this person should read the document to see what activates the authority. It usually is one or 2 medical diagnosis of cognitive/memory impairment. Once she has these, then the PoA can begin to act in her own best interests, including hiring aids or transitioning her to the next level of care using a "therapeutic" fib strategy.
She is 100? If we are speaking of the lovely lady in your profile? Hmmmmmm. I think her stubbornness is likely the answer to longevity, and I am going to start to say "NO" to EVERYTHING right now. PS: If it IS the 100 year old woman, and she IS in independent living, then I give her my congratulations, and a "well-done". As to how WE would handle it, I don't know if you will find another member of this forum whose parent made it to 100. Kudos.
Met a lady, fiercly independant.. taking risks as would not ask or allow help.
I complimented her on her independant spirit (big lit up eyes). I then mentioned that sometimes a little help can be *practical*. Can be *good common sense*. (Received a look. She probably saw right though me, but maybe it gave her an acceptable reason to accept help?)
Well I thought I was pretty darn clever 🤣 but then, I haven’t really managed to dissolve the stubborn out of anyone I am blood related to. Why is that?
One of my favorite and most useful quotes “events will happen that change the situation” Now you just have to get out of the way and wait it out. Changes come for us all, like it or not
If by assistance you mean OTHER than yourself then you back off what YOU are doing. Your schedule is full this week and you can't come do: laundry clean grocery shop take out the garbage and so on and on
If you are doing chores for her that she can not do or has trouble doing then by taking on those jobs you are enabling her to live "independently" You are in a sense propping her up and allowing her to live thinking she does not need help.
So tell mom that the grocery shopping will be done and DELIVERED. You can order but pay for the items from moms funds NOT yours. Mom can have a cleaning company come in 1 time a week...she pays for it. In some cases the cleaning company will also do laundry.
BUT if mom needs help with ADL's (activities of daily living) then she should NOT be living alone, or at least without caregivers that come in to help her. If she is cognizant she can make these decisions but if she is not then you or whoever is POA needs to step in. There is a difference between being stubborn and incognizant
Are you talking about Independent living in a Senior community where she gets her meals, transportation and activities? I think they determine if someone continues to live independently. Maybe time for them to evaluate her for an AL where she gets help.
Our parents will always listen to someone other than one of their children. I went to visit Mom in her AL one day. I met her in the hallway on the way to her room. She told me she was looking for that baby who was crying. I told her there were no babies in the building just adults. The Medtech was standing there. Mom looked at the Medtech and said "If you tell me there are no babies, I will believe you." Medtech told her there were no babies.
This is so true. When my dad was still living on his own he would often visit me at work. He stayed healthy by doing a lot of walking. At this point he did not value my opinion on anything so if I needed him to listen to something (like taking his BP meds every day) I'd ask my receptionist to tell him to do that. Then he listened.
I don't give my mother (96) a choice unless it's between apples and grapes or something irrelevant.
When she tries to refuse to take her Milk of Magnesia, I tell her that the nurse or the doctor said she needs to take it - which is true in general. Down the hatch it goes.
I don't give her a chance to refuse her weekly shower. I walk her in there and sit her down and get after it in spite of her non-stop complaining.
That's about all that she will protest at this point.
A lot will depend on the parents clinical diagnosis, cognitive status etc. have the PCP provide a " level of care needs assessment". This will give you a starting point from which to proceed with options; you can explain to parent that this is for their safety which all are accountable for; again their basic personality and cognitive status may alter how they respond to this; that's ok. Proceed anyhow. If they are cognitively able to communicate you can also tell them that if they persist not cooperating for the care they need, you may at some point have to call APS( Adult Protective Services) ; the consequences to this can be very difficult to accept; you can help them understand that their denial of needs and refusal to be compliant to get and accept help can be interpreted in less than positive ways.... Maybe this will be a wake up call to them . If they continue to refuse, call their PCP and report your observations and ask directions from PCP regarding getting the care they need
"If they continue to refuse, call their PCP and report your observations and ask directions from PCP regarding getting the care they need".
I've done just that (not a parent but another realtive).
Doctor & also Needs Assessment report recommended living arrangements with more supervision & assistanace (ie AL).
All professionals so far have advised 'letting a person fail'.
For the person to no longer cope in order for them to realise they need help. Despite the numberous falls, my LO is still coping, so nothing has changed.
Get them to think it was their idea! I have been able to do that with my mother on one or two things but it takes patience, time, and creativity. It definitely does not work all the time though! It does help to have someone else try since, as many have already pointed out, they never listen to their own children but someone else can often get through to them!
Leave them be. Something will occur that will escalate to the next level. Unless they are frankly well into dementia, they still have decision making capacity. Unless you want to take on errands, groceries housework etc. but recognize that is your choice.
my mom lived on her own til age 96, when she fell, had a stroke and passed a few months later at my sisters, under hospice care.
she ate-not super great but she did. Showered, dressed, got up and down stairs more or less. She had some dementia but refused any help but my sister, who took her shopping weekly and to doctors appointments since she couldn't drive. Grocery delivery? No way. Assisted living? Not a chance.
shr complained incessantly and my sister worried non stop (I moved back nearer them to "rescue" but neither of them was interested). Finally it became clear to my sister that even if she was there 23 hkurs/day, something could happen in hour 24.
at age 75, I plan to live independently until they carry me out. No complaining or insisting that relatives owe me a darn thing. if I don't know where I am, they can move me wherever but as long as I am not ruled mentally incapacitated, I'm making my own decisions, whether they are the ones that others would make or not.
I'm getting ready to pull the trigger and use my position as POA this Spring and force a move. I see all the responses about waiting until something big happens and our LO will finally agree, but my step-father has had 3 major falls in the last year, got lost twice, once a hundred miles from home, all of which required hospital stays and long distance travel by me to get him. He hasn't learned his aid's name in nearly a year and dismisses his doctors orders. He doesn't bathe or eat healthy.
I've offered him my home and to move him closer to me or his daughter, or between us, into a facility. He insists he's fine at home with his dog. He has no family or even friends left where he is since my mother died. He gets extremely angry at the thought of moving and accuses me of trying put him away. He tells his daughter that I just want to sell the house. He's paranoid for no reason. I suspect that goes along with the dementia.
Taking care of him long distance plus the emergency trips are just too much and costing him thousands per month. Something has to give.
* You do what you can. * You let go of what you cannot do.
* Realize that you can do so much and then the chips fall where they may.
While this may sound cruel or mean spirited, I believe it is what a person needs to do at a certain point when 'trying' to help an elder family member. Realizing our limits is critically important.
You must believe / feel that you deserve a life. Then you set boundaries. Then you deal with reality and make decisions that support YOU, and ultimately the family member in need.
Michfish: If perchance you are referring to your 100 year old mother, she's made it to centenarian status. Three cheers to her! Actually - long story short - my mother was living alone many states away when I had to move there. I am very familiar with stubbornness.
I believe very strongly that no matter how old a person is, they have a right to decide themselves whether or not they need assistance. That being said, major change is hard as people age so they tend to be resistant to having strangers helping them in the home and even more resistent to moving to a care facility. I am a caregiver for my husband who has dementia. I accompany him to all of his doctor's appointments and have his healthcare power of attorney. Every time he checks in for a doctor's appointment, he has to indicate whether he has fallen in the last 90- days. When he checks in for most doctor's appointments, he has to answer a bunch of questions regarding his activities of daily living. Then the doctor reviews his ADL's with him and we dicuss ways to get him help. At his last neurology appointment, the doctor said he can no longer drive based on his test scores. He's upset about it but understands that if he gets into an accident, insurance will not cover it because of his diagnosis.
He no longer runs errands and does the grocery shopping like he use to because even before the doctor said no driving, he got lost a few times. So I contacted Seniors Helping Seniors and have someone who comes in once a week to take him out for the day. They go to the gym, play golf, pick up perscriptions, go to the thrift store book shop, and go to Walmart to fill my grocery list.
We both know that if he reaches stage III dementia before the grim reaper comes and takes him, he will be placed in a residential memory care facility. We toured several facilities so he could choose which one he would prefer when and if the time comes.
I had to place my father in assisted living when he was 93. He died two weeks after he was admiitted. Most elderly people die within six months of going in to assisted living or memory care. That is why my husband's medical team recommends keeping an elderly person in their home as long as possible.
My husband, like most elderly people have medical issues that require hospitalization followed by time in a skilled nursing facility and/or home health care. It was very easy to transistion him to having an agency come ion once a week.
Adult children tend to place their elderly parents into a facility way to early. That is why it should be done with the advice of the parent's medical team. The need for assistance doesn't happen overnight. If adult children are in regular contact with their parents, if they help out by going to medical appointments, and talk about future care; it is much less traumatic for everyone when an elderly parent needs more help. But if adult children have minimal contact with their parents and then suddenly get a call from the police or a neighbor that the their parent needs help, then of course the parent will resist. Also, if you think your parent needs more help, bring it up with their doctor in a routine visit. Everyone is less resistant to professional advice. When my father was alive, I would drive him to the doctor and then we would go out for a nice lunch afterwards. He loved it.
"I had to place my father in assisted living when he was 93. He died two weeks after he was admiitted. Most elderly people die within six months of going in to assisted living or memory care. That is why my husband's medical team recommends keeping an elderly person in their home as long as possible."
My mother lived in AL for 5 years and loved it, and then Memory Care Assisted Living for just under 3 years. Most "medical teams" don't even KNOW the elder, nevermind get to make recommendations that are suitable or sensible! The reason some elders die shortly after placement is because they're SO old and the family waited wayyy too long to place them.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
My brother and I tried for 10 years to get my mother to move in AL, she lived in NC in a mountain home with 13 steps up, she lived alone and watched game shows all days, she refused to move near us or into AL.
Finally she had a slight stroke and became afraid to be alone at night, we sprung into action. Moved her to FL and into AL.
The irony is that she loves it and now wishes she had done it years ago, new friends, activities, no housekeeping to do, no food to cook.
She was almost 94 when we moved her in she will be 99 in February.
We had to lay in the weeds and wait, she finally realized that she was no longer independent and able to care for herself.
Back off, don't be your parents crutch, enabling is not the answer.
Wish you the best!
Just waiting for the 'big fall' which may come as a actual fall, a heart attack, a stroke or just old age.
A solid year of propping her up has burned all family to a crisp.
We get LOTS of 'put her in a home' answers and that isn't going to happen, until she's deemed unable to make her own decisions. Nobody's pursuing that avenue, so it's just wait for the big bang.
"I am caring for my mother... who is 100 years old, living in independent living with age-related decline, hearing loss, and incontinence."
Often, the beginnings of dementia appear as unreasonable stubbornness. Is anyone her PoA? If so, this person should read the document to see what activates the authority. It usually is one or 2 medical diagnosis of cognitive/memory impairment. Once she has these, then the PoA can begin to act in her own best interests, including hiring aids or transitioning her to the next level of care using a "therapeutic" fib strategy.
If we are speaking of the lovely lady in your profile?
Hmmmmmm. I think her stubbornness is likely the answer to longevity, and I am going to start to say "NO" to EVERYTHING right now.
PS: If it IS the 100 year old woman, and she IS in independent living, then I give her my congratulations, and a "well-done". As to how WE would handle it, I don't know if you will find another member of this forum whose parent made it to 100. Kudos.
Met a lady, fiercly independant.. taking risks as would not ask or allow help.
I complimented her on her independant spirit (big lit up eyes). I then mentioned that sometimes a little help can be *practical*. Can be *good common sense*. (Received a look. She probably saw right though me, but maybe it gave her an acceptable reason to accept help?)
Well I thought I was pretty darn clever 🤣 but then, I haven’t really managed to dissolve the stubborn out of anyone I am blood related to. Why is that?
Your schedule is full this week and you can't come do:
laundry
clean
grocery shop
take out the garbage
and so on and on
If you are doing chores for her that she can not do or has trouble doing then by taking on those jobs you are enabling her to live "independently"
You are in a sense propping her up and allowing her to live thinking she does not need help.
So tell mom that the grocery shopping will be done and DELIVERED. You can order but pay for the items from moms funds NOT yours.
Mom can have a cleaning company come in 1 time a week...she pays for it.
In some cases the cleaning company will also do laundry.
BUT if mom needs help with ADL's (activities of daily living) then she should NOT be living alone, or at least without caregivers that come in to help her.
If she is cognizant she can make these decisions but if she is not then you or whoever is POA needs to step in.
There is a difference between being stubborn and incognizant
Our parents will always listen to someone other than one of their children. I went to visit Mom in her AL one day. I met her in the hallway on the way to her room. She told me she was looking for that baby who was crying. I told her there were no babies in the building just adults. The Medtech was standing there. Mom looked at the Medtech and said "If you tell me there are no babies, I will believe you." Medtech told her there were no babies.
When she tries to refuse to take her Milk of Magnesia, I tell her that the nurse or the doctor said she needs to take it - which is true in general. Down the hatch it goes.
I don't give her a chance to refuse her weekly shower. I walk her in there and sit her down and get after it in spite of her non-stop complaining.
That's about all that she will protest at this point.
This is a dictatorship, not a democracy.
I've done just that (not a parent but another realtive).
Doctor & also Needs Assessment report recommended living arrangements with more supervision & assistanace (ie AL).
All professionals so far have advised 'letting a person fail'.
For the person to no longer cope in order for them to realise they need help. Despite the numberous falls, my LO is still coping, so nothing has changed.
mother on one or two things but it takes patience, time, and creativity. It definitely does not work all the time though! It does help to have someone else try since, as many have already pointed out, they never listen to their own children but someone else can often get through to them!
my mom lived on her own til age 96, when she fell, had a stroke and passed a few months later at my sisters, under hospice care.
she ate-not super great but she did. Showered, dressed, got up and down stairs more or less. She had some dementia but refused any help but my sister, who took her shopping weekly and to doctors appointments since she couldn't drive. Grocery delivery? No way. Assisted living? Not a chance.
shr complained incessantly and my sister worried non stop (I moved back nearer them to "rescue" but neither of them was interested). Finally it became clear to my sister that even if she was there 23 hkurs/day, something could happen in hour 24.
at age 75, I plan to live independently until they carry me out. No complaining or insisting that relatives owe me a darn thing. if I don't know where I am, they can move me wherever but as long as I am not ruled mentally incapacitated, I'm making my own decisions, whether they are the ones that others would make or not.
I've offered him my home and to move him closer to me or his daughter, or between us, into a facility. He insists he's fine at home with his dog. He has no family or even friends left where he is since my mother died. He gets extremely angry at the thought of moving and accuses me of trying put him away. He tells his daughter that I just want to sell the house. He's paranoid for no reason. I suspect that goes along with the dementia.
Taking care of him long distance plus the emergency trips are just too much and costing him thousands per month. Something has to give.
Good Luck to you. I know how difficult this is.
* You let go of what you cannot do.
* Realize that you can do so much and then the chips fall where they may.
While this may sound cruel or mean spirited, I believe it is what a person needs to do at a certain point when 'trying' to help an elder family member. Realizing our limits is critically important.
You must believe / feel that you deserve a life.
Then you set boundaries.
Then you deal with reality and make decisions that support YOU, and ultimately the family member in need.
Gena / Touch Matters
Actually - long story short - my mother was living alone many states away when I had to move there. I am very familiar with stubbornness.
He no longer runs errands and does the grocery shopping like he use to because even before the doctor said no driving, he got lost a few times. So I contacted Seniors Helping Seniors and have someone who comes in once a week to take him out for the day. They go to the gym, play golf, pick up perscriptions, go to the thrift store book shop, and go to Walmart to fill my grocery list.
We both know that if he reaches stage III dementia before the grim reaper comes and takes him, he will be placed in a residential memory care facility. We toured several facilities so he could choose which one he would prefer when and if the time comes.
I had to place my father in assisted living when he was 93. He died two weeks after he was admiitted. Most elderly people die within six months of going in to assisted living or memory care. That is why my husband's medical team recommends keeping an elderly person in their home as long as possible.
My husband, like most elderly people have medical issues that require hospitalization followed by time in a skilled nursing facility and/or home health care. It was very easy to transistion him to having an agency come ion once a week.
Adult children tend to place their elderly parents into a facility way to early. That is why it should be done with the advice of the parent's medical team. The need for assistance doesn't happen overnight. If adult children are in regular contact with their parents, if they help out by going to medical appointments, and talk about future care; it is much less traumatic for everyone when an elderly parent needs more help. But if adult children have minimal contact with their parents and then suddenly get a call from the police or a neighbor that the their parent needs help, then of course the parent will resist. Also, if you think your parent needs more help, bring it up with their doctor in a routine visit. Everyone is less resistant to professional advice. When my father was alive, I would drive him to the doctor and then we would go out for a nice lunch afterwards. He loved it.
My mother lived in AL for 5 years and loved it, and then Memory Care Assisted Living for just under 3 years. Most "medical teams" don't even KNOW the elder, nevermind get to make recommendations that are suitable or sensible! The reason some elders die shortly after placement is because they're SO old and the family waited wayyy too long to place them.