My father-in-law (FIL) has always been a narcissist. Not diagnosed but it is pretty clear, and I do mean raging, in your face, clear. My husband and his sister continue to try to please him but now even they are fed up. All of the grands have distanced themselves and don't visit except briefly at holidays.
Several years ago sister-in-law and her husband moved in for a number of reasons, but the long and the short of it is that he has turned it into his very own nursing home at home. SIL is worn out and fed up. They are working on a move out plan. But I'm concerned that because they have lived there and provided care for 2 years already that we need to do things in a certain order. He is not above calling the police if they leave him because he knows he can't stay there alone. They aren't to the move out point yet, but what is the best way to do this?
He isn't going to choose going to a nursing home on his own. He refuses to listen to us about figuring out a plan. He is still competent to make his own choices. To him, everyone in a nursing home is old and he still lives in a world where he doesn't believe he is aging. (86, tons of medical issues, nearly immobile, mostly incontinent - so I think even AL is not enough) He maintains and expects that his children will continue to facilitate so that he can live the way he is accustomed.
So what steps do we need to follow as we move towards them moving out? He can't stay there on his own. But he will refuse to move out. I know we are likely going to have to get APS involved or go to court to execute the POA/guardianship, which we don't want to do because though he makes TERRIBLE choices, they are still his to make and I doubt they would find in our favor anyway. He is a genius when it comes to an audience. He is mean and abusive to family but makes others think he is a sweet old man. Anyone outside of family that questions him or sees his true colors he just cuts out of his life. It is very telling that family is all that he has left and extended family members are dropping like flies because his carefully crafted demeanor slips more these days. Anger is at the surface anytime anyone questions him. So all hell is likely to break loose soon.
1) he assigns someone in our family PoA since no one recovers from Parkinsons and we need to manage his (very meager) affairs. This was not a promise to orbit around him or to never move him into a facility (again, 6'5" tall person falling on the floor daily due to denial). Without legal authority we could not legally help him in certain things.
OR, if he didn't agree with #1...
2) we would remove his wife (because she had severe short-term memory issues and mobility problems, weighed more than 200 lbs, in a house with stairs) and then we'd call APS and allow the county to become his guardian and no one in the family would be able to control what happened after that. Nor would we care.
He called my bluff and chose #2. He died a lonely man as a ward of the county in a crappy county facility. This is an intelligent man with a degree in (wait for it...) Finance. We could never figure him out. No logic to his thinking. Just control and fear and secrets. I had no bandwidth to play that game.
This is what awaits your FIL and he needs to be told this, in front of everyone, with someone videoing it. If no one is his PoA or guardian, I don't think he can accuse them of neglect if he is uncooperative. But your relatives should probably call the county social services (without telling FIL) and ask what they advise, this way they know your relatives aren't wanting to neglect him. The county social workers have seen this scenario played out a thousand times a year. They will understand and will have him on their radar as a vulnerable adult. They will come in for assessment to see if he qualifies for some in-home help. That differs from state to state and it won't be full-time help with everything. Your relatives are not obligated to do what he wants, as caregiving must be muatally agreed-upon and satisfactory for both parties, not just one.
I wish you and your family peace in your hearts that FIL is getting the retirement he planned for - a sad, crappy one. Some of his decision-making and behaviors may be driven by dementia, since no one really knows when that line is crossed, especially in those with prior "challenging" personalities. But that fact won't change the trajectory of his future unless he cooperates today.
He did a number on my husband and his sister, spent years grooming them to jump when he says jump and they both know they need some therapy to deal with their past with him. He is not going to change and we've come to terms with that. But his situation will have to at some point.
I'm mostly concerned with what could happen if BIL and SIL move out without a care plan in place. He can't live there alone. APS will most certainly get involved somehow and as much as I want him to be safe and taken care of, I'm also worried about trouble for my BIL and SIL leaving him there after serving as caregivers and even my husband and myself somehow being complicit because we knew they were leaving and didn't intervene.
Is there some legal backlash that could occur as a result of us not getting involved beforehand and letting him make his own choices? What responsibility do we have?
If he's competent there should be no backlash. He's allowed to make bad choices. I do recommend my original post (included in this post below) to protect yourself.
Additionally, to further protect yourself and your family, start a journal, filling in back information the best that you can, of all that you're doing for him. Be specific with the information. What you've done, things you've recommended, trips to the doc, etc. This way, you have documentation of everything you've tried. Maybe record some of the interactions.
My original post before seeing your response:
Oh, BlueEyedGirl, I am so sorry you're all having to go through this.
Geaton777 wrote a great response with amazing insight.
You wrote: "He is still competent to make his own choices." That means he's entitled to make his own decisions, however bad. I recommend contacting APS to request information and ask about an assessment. Also, check with your local housing authority to find out how to legally remove him, such as eviction.
Eviction or the threat of it is harsh, but if he's competent, it's up to him to figure out where to go. You can assist him in figuring out where to go as your family is being very kind to him, but consider it tough love.
I'm sorry for being blunt, but I'm still recovering from a torturous period with Twisted Sisters and I have no tolerance for narcs. You and your family have tried your best and, like all the others in his life, you have reached the end. I do wish you and your father a good outcome.
I think a call to your Office of Aging and/or APS is where you need to start. Tell them what you said here and ask if his situation can be evaluated. Not sure when ur SIL plans on telling him she is moving out. I would wait till all her ducks are in a row. No one can be forced to live or care for someone. If he is evaluated and found he needs little help, then no one can be held responsible for him. As long as he is deemed competent, no one can be held responsible for him. You just have to wait for something to happen. If he ends up in rehab have him evaluated for LTC and his competency to make informed decisions. If this happens, make sure the Social Worker knows that his family cannot care for him. So that is not an option.
The Will has nothing to do with a POA. Once a person passes, the POA is revoked. At that point, if there is a Will, the Executor takes over. POA usually consists as a financial and medical. Actually separate POAs. A financial can be immediate or springing. You need to read it to see which. Usually its Springing meaning the person has to be found incompetent of handling their own affairs. Medical the same, they can't make informed decisions concerning their care. This could mean being in a coma besides being incompetent.
So, read the POA. If FIL is found incompetent, then you have the ability to place him in LTC for his safety. I had no problem placing my Mom into an AL, then into LTC applying for Medicaid. But she was pretty much into her Dementia and just went along with my decisions. I was able to sell her home.
I think you are now just trying to extricate your in-laws from living with him. Afterward, he is going to have lots of issues. Good luck. This won’t be fun.
My husband and I moved into my father's home to take care of him and the house, but he was a lovely man and did not require much physical care. He was grateful to have us be his "long term care" solution so he could stay in his own home and did not have to move into a facility. I am realizing how lucky we were.
In your FIL's situation, you may have to pay a hired professional to take over the job. They will not take inappropriate behaviors as personally as family does.
1 - Make sure to have medical and financial POAs, wills, advance medical directives, and any other legal documents secured.
2 - Make an appointment with his doctor to decide on mental competency. Have whoever is caring for him start keeping a journal of all the caregiving they do and decision-making they have to do for him: pay bills, make sure he takes medications. his ability to call or not dial people on the phone (can he dial 911 if he needs to?) ...
3 - Once his doctor has declared him mentally incompetent. the family can then make plans for "paid care". Research all available options: in home care round the clock, assisted living (each facility can tell you their criteria and if he qualifies), and full care residential facilities. Have family meetings to discuss each type of care and what his finances will support. It is best if all can agree on a type of care and a place, but ultimately the persons holding the medical and financial POAs are the ones who must decide and sign documents.
4 - Make arrangements for paid care and start telling dad his care will be taken care of "differently". Explain that his needs have become a 24/7 job and that nobody in the family can provide this type of care. Then, explain that you have researched all options and the family has agreed that ________ type of care will work for his situation.
5 - Expect a lot of fussing, arguments, and anger. Everybody should express their love for him and their concern that he be well taken care of. Express confidence in "the plan" - no waffling. Each person should decide how he or she will keep in contact and let your LO know those plans - and reinforce them frequently.
6 - Make "change of care day" as easy as possible, Pack everything for his room if he is moving and set it up in advance of his arrival. If he will have "in home care," introduce his new caregivers and spend time slowly handing over the reins to their care: be there for the first few days, then "go on trips to run errands" for an hour or 2, then the "errand trips" extend to 4-5 hours and later to 8 hours and so on until the family only visits as already agreed upon.
7 - Realize that he may create difficulty for his new caregivers. It may be helpful to have him evaluated by a psychiatrist that specializes in seniors. Counselling and/or psychiatric medications may need to become part of his health care regimen.
I just went through that with taking care of my 82 year old narcissistIc father who died of cancer this February. It was a nightmare!!!
My one 52 year old covert narcissist brother was living in the house off of my dad for 5 years for free and never lifted a finger to help AT ALL, along with my dad’s 70 year old Covert narcissistic sister, who was also living for free off of my dad, both were users and taking advantage of living there for free. I had to get my aunt out of the house to bring in a caregiver and that didn’t go down too well because her free meal ticket, her gravy train was coming to an end.
My dad was at the point where he couldn’t live on his own and take care of himself anymore plus he also had Alzheimer’s about 50-60% of the way. My dad was a rageaholic and still thought he was running the show and calling all the shots even though he was no longer capable.
My other brother, another narcissist, was an ER nurse that talked my dad into changing the trust and the will and removing me after 16 years of being the POA to put him in charge under the guise that he would take care of my dad because he was a nurse. My dad fell for it, removed me, put younger brother in charge, my brother then started giving him Norcos and doping him up with the help of my aunt and was going to take the house and screw me and my other brother out of EVEYTHING! He had the house in escrow and my dad flipped out. Luckily I was able to get to an attorney and my dad was still there enough mentally that the attorney saw that he could make his own decisions and the trust was restored with me back in charge. It was beyond stressful.
I took care of him for a year with the help of a care giver but it almost did me in and my sanity along with it. I wasn’t JUST dealing with my narcissist father but also with 3 other narcissist in the whole family drama.
So, long story short....there are no good ways to deal with a narcissist. It’s a moment by moment thing. You can have a plan and use all your good common sense but your dealing with unreasonable, irrational, illogical human beings and they become even worse when they are old and no longer competent and capable. They become WORSE because for them life is about CONTROL and they no longer have control. So I really really feel for you and wish I had some words of wisdom to guide you. You are in for a ride with this situation and that’s why I say, get yourself a good therapist because you will need it for you sanity. Best of luck.
The first thing to sort out is what he can really do for himself, but perhaps has been done by daughter 'to make it easier' for him. Sometimes we handicap people by just doing things for them instead of letting them do it with a little struggle. He may be able to do more for himself that you currently see. Mobility issues can be created when WE jump up to get things and allow them to sit longer and longer. Physical therapy can help with mobility. There are pads and diapers that can hold the pee and still allow you to go to a toilet to finish your business.
You said dad is, although a handful, competent. You might try a sit down with him, not to argue or engage when he rages, but to explain what is going to happen. Daughter will be moving out on XX day and we need to make sure you are taken care of. These are the things she does every day for you now, so we need to talk about who is going to do them all day and night when she leaves. We will have to get someone to come in and do these things. Do you have anyone that you want to ask (let him come up with names of his friends/family)? Do make the contact with anyone he names and give him the feedback on what they all say. If no takers, then move to next option - we'll contact some companies that do this sort of thing or would you want to see about assisted living where there are people of all ages. Offer a trip to a couple of assisted living places and THEY can tell him if he is a fit for AL or not.
As a note, if daughter moved there because it was a trade off - free room and board for caregiving duties - then the family might consider something as simple as getting her some help. Tell dad he's gonna start paying for 3 days in a row of 24/7 help because daughter needs time off (3 days one week and 4 days the next). New agreement is she pays 1/2 expenses bills and provide 1/2 of the caregiving. I only say this because lots of kids move in on the parent(s) because of financial hardship and it works out well until they have to pay back the free room and board.
Refusing to respond to his anger as anger, and instead calling it "fear", "I see how afraid you are"... will begin to make his anger useless. As he begins to deny that and escalate, you can escalate your interpretation, "It feels terrifying to you"
Continue on that basis, framing every resistance to change as "I know you're scared... and we need to do this ". Narcissists don't respond to logical argument. They respond to having their feelings named and received.
Don't change your plans, just deliver them as a definite, but not a power struggle. Not a "we win/ you lose", but a "doing this because we care. Even if you don't see that right now".
I realize and I'm working on, separating myself some, replacing anger with pity, and not allowing him to get in MY head. It's a slow road and has a lot of roadblocks and potholes!
Not saying it's good to lose your temper, or yell at old people like that. But as I stood there with my mouth gaping I thought, well said really. I told the Doctor I was impressed with his saying it like it was. He said someone had to. The family were so burned out so he thought he'd take it on.
Maybe you need a Doctor like that?