How do you deal with caring way more about a LO's health than they do? Yet they complain about issues they could easily improve?

Cause and effect can be hard for those who don’t have dementia. Many people never seem to realize that their own decisions led them to where they are in life.
We used to have many posts where people complained that elders were living too long. How Doctors were extending their lives past the point they had any quality of life. The US has an average life expectancy of about 78 I think it is. Your mom at 75 would be near that. Perhaps she is tired.
The PT before a vacation sounds good. Hopefully she will have more energy and both of you will enjoy the break in routine. I think you are doing good to keep her active so she can have the best life possible. It is stressful watching our loved ones decline regardless of their age. Recently there was a post re an 87 yr old who didn’t want to go to the doctor for BP meds. Adult children as a group seem confused about what they want. Extend the life, don’t extend the life. Maybe againx100 you might find some benefit from reading “Being Mortal, Medicine and What Matters in the End” by Atul Gawande. There comes a point where a person might be ready to relax into old age and not feel compelled to fight it without it being called depression. How about reality? Since you know your mom has dementia, it might be a good time for you and mom to discuss Atul’s five questions. Or it may be later than you think.
Here is a link to an interview where he is discussing the questions he feels every elder deserves to discuss with their doctors and family.

https://www.nextavenue.org/atul-gawandes-5-questions-ask-lifes-end/

Your mom is lucky to have you.

Going through this right now. My LO neglected her health and led a sedentary lifestyle for decades. Well, sedentary in terms of she WOULD get up and go to work where she would be in an upright position for 8-12 hours straight.... and then right back to the couch and then back and forth to the fridge and bathroom all evening long. These extremes could not have been good for her body. She was on the couch pretty much all day after retirement. She neglected her health in terms of she NEVER missed a Dr appt, but all she wanted was more pills. Pills for pain, pills for blood pressure, pills for cardiac issues, pills for things she probably didn't even have. Decided she was depressed and doctor wrote a script for that too. Abused food like I have never seen anyone do... and she is also type 2 diabetic. Obesity, afib, digestive issues (alternating constipation/diarrhea). Sleep apnea - probably for decades, but only recently diagnosed. Refusing cpap. Complaining about the meds that are supposed to relax her and help her WEAR the cpap - she said a family member (who has NO IDEA the totality of the situation) told her not to take that particular pill because it's "bad." I nearly killed myself trying to care for her at home and did have to place her in a NH. I feel I looked at all options prior to that. I have been very involved since then in terms of her being comfortable and feeling as good as possible - I've been her advocate through it all. But she wants more. Something else. Something "better." I told her we're at the end of new things to try. No option other than cpap for now and I made no bones about it that I will not be looking at other options - this is it. I've listened to constant complaints for 17 years (as others backed away or passed away) and a lot of it was due to her choices. Refusal to get up and move around. Refusal to eat better/healthier. No sense of cause and effect. Always blaming someone else or claiming someone told her that what she's doing is OK. Trust me, if you met this lady at any point in the past 60 years, you'd immediately know that no one told her that she's doing just fine and no changes are needed.

As you said, the Dementia will make the way she is worse. But don't disable her. It may not be that she doesn't want to clean, it could be she has forgotten how to. At 72, because of my back, its harder to make my bed. So DH helps. I had an aide tell me once Mom would not brush her teeth. I asked if the aide but the toothpaste on the brush and handed it to her. The answer was No. Maybe you need to give Mom a push. Buy those Swiffer dusters and have her use them. I have a little broom sweeper I use for quick cleaning. Really how dirty can a bedroom get.

Once a complainer always a complainer. They are called Debbie Downers. I had a friend like this. When she complained, I'd suggest a solution. Always a reason why the solution wouldn't work. One was an application for the Senior bus. She was under the age limit but disabled which they excepted. When she was complaining she couldn't find a ride, I asked what happen to the bus? She said she was turned down. I doubt that, she just never applied. Now if I had gotten her the application, had her fill it out, take it back and follow up on the progress she probably would have liked that. Sorry, my new slogan is "I am here to help people find the way, I am not here to be the way"

Please be kinder. It IS going to get worse, and she'll become even less like you than she already is. You need to figure out how to handle that with compassion.

I see a lot of complaining in the post, so maybe you aren't as different as you think. 😉

I have gone thru the same exact thing

I wish I had quit trying. And that’s my advise to you. Quit trying, she won’t and you can’t do it for her.

Please read my response MJ1929.. I felt like all we ever did was argue and to what consequence. My mom went from independently living in a mobile home , to AL , then to a MC. She does nothing to help herself. But still asked the dr for PT 4 months ago.. I tell her she will end up in a nursing home, she does not care, and is lazy.

I know your frustration

Yes.... As babsjvd states, the repeated requests for PT... It gets a little crazy when the ONLY time she does the exercises at all (let alone doing the exercises correctly) is when a therapist is standing right there. If therapist blinks an eye, LO is doing her thing her way or not doing anything at all - except asking for more therapy. Constantly. And blaming other people for her current condition. In our case, a lot of the non compliance can be attributed to her overall condition having declined over the years to where she's now in a facility and there are a lot of things she legit cannot do. BUT, she was this way when she was independent as well. If no one's watching, she does her thing. If someone's right there babying her.... she's all smiles and "trying so hard" to make therapist/doctor/whatever person happy. Absolutely no point to it and with the cost of PT, there isn't any insurance plan that will cover it indefinitely anyway.

Truly, I think the best thing you can do for mom AND for yourself is to learn as much as you possibly can about how the mind of an elder with dementia works. THEN you will understand more where mom is coming from. You still won't agree with her about the PT (and I know that feeling, too, b/c my mother fought me hard on the PT for years) but you'll gain insight into many things you never realized before.

I suggest you read this 33 page booklet (which is a free download) which has THE best information ever about managing dementia and what to expect with an elder who's been diagnosed with it.

Understanding the Dementia Experience, by Jennifer Ghent-Fuller 
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/210580

She also has published a workbook entitled, “It Isn’t Common Sense: Interacting with People Who Have Memory Loss Due to Dementia.” For people to understand that reality and context as perceived and experienced by a person with dementia, is altered by the dementia; and, that their reality and context is continuously changing as the dementia progresses, requires learning and an attitude shift; it is not ‘common sense.’


Here is a list of useful tips from her e-book I found to be excellent:

The “Dont's”
· Do not reason and argue
· Do not demand that they reason or problem-solve
· Do not demand that they remember
· Do not demand that they get their facts straight
· Do not correct their ideas or scold them
· Do not reorient them
· Do not think that they are being uncooperative on purpose
· Do not think that they really do remember, but are pretending not to
· Do not use a “bossy” dictatorial attitude in care
· Do not act with impatience
The Do's
· Enter into their frame of reality, or their 'world'
· Be aware of their mood or state of mind
· Use few words and simple phrases
· OR use no words, just friendly gestures and simple motions
· Do everything slowly
· Approach from the front
· Wait for a slow response
· Constantly reassure them that everything is 'OK'
· Keep people with dementia comfortable 'in the moment' - every moment
· Maximize use of remaining abilities
· Limit TV or radio programs which they may feel are frighteningly real
· Maintain privacy
· Provide a safe physical environment
Language Needs
· Use short words
· Use clear and simple sentences
· Speak slowly and calmly
· Questions should ask for a “yes” or “no” answer
· Talk about one thing at a time
· Talk about concrete things; not abstract ideas
· Use common phrases
· Always say what you are doing
· If they repeat their question, repeat your answer as you did the first time · Give them a longer time to process information
· Wait patiently for a response
· Be accepting of inappropriate answers and nonsense words
· Speak softly, soothingly and gently

Care Needs
· Recognize that receiving personal care feels intrusive
· Reassure with your tone and manner
· Do one thing at a time
· Talk through the care “play-by- play”
· Be aware of your body language and use it to communicate relaxation and reassurance
· Be sincere
· Use a soft, soothing touch
· Be aware of the individual’s unique triggers
· Be aware that a person with dementia may not accurately judge whether a situation is threatening to them
· They may respond to fear, pain or anxiety by defending themselves with what we call “aggression”
· If they become distressed, stop immediately and allow them time to calm down – don’t try to restart the activity right away
You need to change your behaviour to adapt to the dementia because the person with the disease cannot.

Another good book is Living in the Labyrinth: A Personal Journey Through the Maze of Alzheimer's, by Diana Friel McGowin. Learn all you can about AD/dementia b/c knowledge is power!

Also plan for the future when you may no longer be able to handle mom at home & Memory Care may be your best bet.

GOOD LUCK!

Do you live in my house? I had to read this post twice because I thought I wrote it. I don't have any answers, just wanted to say you aren't alone.

Switch from caring about her health to caring about her wellbeing.

Healthier but miserable and feeling driven and disapproved of is not how you want your mother to be.

Those aides who you've hired to encourage her exercises, how are they getting on with her? The coaxing/threatening/encouraging bit is their job, and that's what she's paying for (excellent decision on your part) - are they are doing it, do you think? If so, you should, if you look surreptitiously and discreetly without your mother's noticing you, begin to see the green shoots of returning motivation. Any sign?

I believe they go in stages of decline . My Dad doesn't want to do Much but read and watch Tv . He use to walk with me to get lunch but since the cold weather doesn't want to go outside . He did his 5 Months of Physical therapy from July to November . Once it warms up again I am going to get him Outside . My social worker says " no one Likes PT . " If you figure the brain is in decline so is the body . He is 85 . 2 years ago he was riding His Bicycle every where . This summer he had a fall and diagnosed with a small stroke . We Dealt with a Fall a Month . The last few months he has been good But doesn't want to go Outside due to the cold . Going to bring Him to the doctors and see if he can get some PT again . I Say " Be Gentle " Will he be able to go outside and walk to go get Lunch ? I Don't Know But he is comfortable, happy , content , warm, dry and fed . The brain has broken down and so has the body . His spirit is still there and that makes me smile .

People with dementia lose the ability to think logically, they lose their memory, and they can lose the ability to walk (my mother "forgot" how to walk), and usually things get worse over time. My mother now has advanced dementia, and she is like an infant: she can't talk, she can't walk, she needs to be taken to the bathroom, she needs help dressing and showering, and she needs to be fed. If you will not be able to handle this, have a Plan B for her to live in a memory care unit where she can get the care she needs. Or you can have aides come in to help in your home. Sadly, dementia usually gets worse over time.

One of the most difficult elements of caring for my 95 yo mother with advanced dementia is entering into her world. My mother also wants everything to be done for her while she puts forth no effort to help. She would be happy if I carried her around the house on my back and spoon fed her every bite and held her hand all night. It's like pulling a freight train with my teeth. She tells me to cancel her appointments (her physical therapist and weekly nurse visits) and I tell her "okay" but I don't. I'm not trying to get her to do anything that's impossible for her. I'm trying to give her proper care. I've been continually trying to coax her into a shower or eating or staying out of the bed during the day or doing a few exercises which ends up in conflict because she is super strong willed and I'm exhausted. I guess I haven't offered much help other than to let you know that you're not alone.

Hiring all the help she needs might just be the best solution. Her avoidance of diagnoses and treatments sound more deep seated than just dementia-related. She will continue to complain to get sympathy and attention, and she will continue to avoid seeking medical advice or treatment out of fear and denial. She may complain hoping her symptoms can be explained away. When she complains, you can remind her that she can do something about her problems or not. If problems worry her enough to seek help, you can drive her to her appt but you are not a doctor and cannot fix them yourself. You can tell her that if she chooses not to get further medical help, you do not want to hear about her problems.

I felt the same with my mum - sitting waiting for everyone to do for her (i.e. me). I’m working harder for your life than you are. Just moved her into Extra Care Housing 10 days ago - I am cruel, wicked, evil, conspired with my brother because he would never do anything so wicked. 10 days later she is miserable
(I can’t believe I’m in an old people’s home - she has a private flat with access to communal areas at 84), but happy - ‘it’s lovely here, they are wonderful, there are lovely people to talk to, we have fun’. It was only whilst packing her up and clearing her old flat that I realised she must have had dementia for YEARS! Officially diagnosed with mild dementia 18 months ago, but researching it, it seems she must have been suffering WAY before then. It’s been sad to see fully how many things have been completely forgotten about. I had to ask her where toothpaste and shampoo were, her underwear had to be binned, she was using a towel I remember her having when I was a teenager. Everything has gone to pot. She has gone downhill rapidly and I was saying the same as you just 5 months ago. She ‘washes up’ her pots, but they are dirty when she’s done it, she’s forgotten she needs a haircut - no longer wears makeup - just lost interest.
Now she’s moved she feels safe and has support to shower, dress, eat, medication, laundry - everything I was feeling exhausted and resentful about. Get the professionals in and let them handle the care - they are the experts. Then you will be able to have a daughter/mother relationship again.

In reading some of the answers here, I realize that I am not alone in wanting my husband, who is 91, to do more for himself. However, with some therapy, I have come to see that a good part of my frustration and anger when he doesn't remember to do something he commits to is actually about my frustration but also my fear of his decline and the process of watching it happen. I cannot control it. I can hardly influence it but accepting that what I am looking at and experiencing is more about the diseases than his choice is somewhat helpful. Of course, there is a little projection going on too, like who will be around to help me when I may need the help. Hopefully, the knowledge of what I am feeling and confronted with will make this process easier and cause me to plan what is necessary. Each of us shares a lot, but our journey is uniquely ours.

It sounds like mother doesn’t have much incentive to do things that she should. Are there any non-essentials that are treats? Could they be ‘prizes’ for doing it right?

She appears to have a loose association between cause and effect. It is easy to slip into procrastination... and that appears to be her coping style for a long, long time.
It might be best to take a more relaxed approach to her health and lifestyle decisions:

1 - Is the issue "life and death"?
If so, then make the decision that leans heavily to "life"?

2 - Is the issue one that leads to disability?
Help her to see the long term effects of options. Try to narrow options down to 2-3 choices and let her choose the option to take.

3- Is the issue one that causes "hurt to others"?
Make the decision that is kindest for all involved.
Explain to her that "we always need to be kind to others, even when it might be difficult for ourselves".

4 - Is the issue about "lifestyle"?
As long as it doesn't cause safety or health problems, let her decide.

againx100: I am sorry that your mother has received a dementia dx. It's good that you hired a cleaning lady and an aide for the exercises. Perhaps she will be more inclined to care about her health because, after all, she is paying for it as she should (good on your part to know that).

I am so sorry about the dementia diagnosis for your mom. It's not easy. That is good you are encouraging her to do as much as she possibly can for herself- the less she does, the less she will be able to do. That is also great you are getting her an aide for her exercises and also hiring people to help with her chores.
You said she shuts down after you mention she will end up in a wheelchair. Does she ever have any thoughts about that at all?
She sounds a lot like how my mom is- won't do anything about improving her situation- and because of it she is in a wheelchair. Complains about her knees, etc. but has not nor will consider knee replacement. Does not want to follow through with her exercises that PT gave her. So here we are. I may hire an aide for that myself. She will listen to them- she gets very angry with me when I try to get her to exercise and even when I get her to do things herself sometimes. My thought is maybe she's at the point where she just wants to be left alone and do nothing. 🤷‍♀️ Maybe your mom might feel that way as well? It is very frustrating.

Don't be a sponge.........don't absorb all the complaints thrown your way. Perhaps getting a social worker to place her will permit you to visit her, rather than providing exhausting care-taking duties.

After reading so much on this forum, I've come to understand that sacrificing one's sanity is not healthy for anyone; especially the one who forfeits her happiness trying to make someone else happy. Old age, physical pain/limitations and the dreary darkness of mental illness is NOT a happy place for anyone.

Glad you vented. Good to hire a Caregiver, etc. As you all tell me: continue to enforce boundaries for you mental & physical well being. Get the help in. Your Mom's attitude is carbon copy of my Mom's re: life & movement. They might be separated at birth! Where is the gratitude for life? I just love seeing 75+ yr olds out walking...those who place value on the day & days to come.. who have positive attitudes.. You are beyond generous with her in your home! How many years has she been there? How old is she?

'I can identify with everything you're going through, though my mom is at a much lesser degree of dementia... I resent it - she's been this way for a few decades but it's only been in the last few years, along with her cognitive decline, that I have really noticed that I was doing way too much for her and that just helped her downslide. If I'd only had a crystal ball, I would have played my hand ... differently.'

Againx100, this is exactly my situation too. My mother (87 and with no serious health conditions) resents and rejects almost all attempts to help her make more of her life and complains about hating the AL where she lives, saying she is just 'sitting waiting to go'. We have tried physiotherapists to help with the pain of weakening underused muscles, going to the doctor for tests for her early dementia, hiring a cleaner and carers and taking her food to tempt her to eat. We used to take her out, but she found fault with whatever we did. She hates being stuck in her apartment (she gave up walking owing to vertigo although there is nothing physiologically wrong with her legs), but when we went to take her to our home for tea on Saturday instead of lunch, she wouldn't come.

This relentless negativity over five years, added to our historically poor relationship (she seems to having narcissistic traits) has resulted in my being on anxiety medication and fearing the future. My husband is 65 next month, with health concerns of his own - what if Mum lives to 92, like my grandmother?

HI, you asked about other incentives or rewards. Here's a suggestion. Turn the TV off and take away the remote. For every 15 minutes of doing exercises, you earn 1 hour of TV time. When the weather is nice, wheel her outside and do some stretching exercises with her. Seated exercises are pretty gentle. You might be able to find some old You Tubes with Sit and Be Fit exercises. How about a pet - like a senior cat that could give her something to care for? Live for? Just make sure the animal is not mistreated in anyway. If it just means more work for you, forget it. Walking to the mailbox is always good, if that is possible. You can send a card or some little treat in the mail to make it fun to see what is there. Just suggestions. Take care of yourself and remember you can't control another person, just what you do. Perhaps the less interested you are in what she is doing, the more she will be. Sometimes its a backward way of getting attention. Good luck.

'It's amazing how suggesting compassion gets slammed.'

MJ, I don't get the impression that the OP and most of us here are not showing compassion. We are just worn out by trying to do our best for people who will not do - and in some cases have never done - their best for themselves, for whatever reasons. In many cases, the lack of use of their brain and body may well have contributed to the dementia that now makes their life even harder, which is in no way our fault. If we didn't care about them and want to help, we wouldn't be on this forum trying to obtain a bit of moral support for a long-term problem for which we have no training and maybe not enough mental and physical strength.

Moving to a new place, near the care facility, will force both of you into a new situation. Talk with the social worker and see where you can live near by. Or, sister can change everything if she volunteers to take her, right?

I have similar things with my dad. He’s now pretty much in bed all day because he finds it hard to stand and walk even with zimmer,
a lengthy journey of rehab, home, hospital, respite over 16 weeks. Currently in respite and not liking it one bit, but mum frazzled and frankly scared after the last seizure,
his carer said he needs stimulation, so I totally agree with Helen on that lack of use of body and mind is speeding up any dementia (my dad is waiting for an mri to determine)
he’s registered blind, but can still hear. Won’t have the radio on won’t have the tv on. I left and he broke down, it is the hardest time/experience for them and for us, none of us wants to see any living being suffer, yet if them themselves refuse to do anything what do we do. I’ve never felt so helpless
he got tired doing his physio, fed up with drinking to flush out a UTI and keep his kidneys going. Gigabees post reasonates so much…. My mum bless her buries her head (she drives me nuts but I love her)
we try everything we can and we keep trying. None of us went into this willingly so we should get all the help we can: keep getting the help in againx and I wish you all well xxx