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For past 3 years my brother/wife & I/husband have rotated coming to Alabama to support my parents living independently. Parents always reimburse us for the apartment we stay in, utilities, & gas spent transporting/driving down. There is no financial burden on us. Dad died in Dec 2019 & mom’s in mental decline. Now instead of just providing transportation, laundry & occasional respite, mom needs someone living with her to ensure she takes her meds/eats. She still takes care of her own hygiene most of the time, gets around with a walker, can do simple foods, & self-amuses. She bought a house that’s big enough for her & a live-in couple. So instead of us renting an apartment, we’re moving in with her (rotating who’s here). My brother decided he wants to be compensated. He will come this next time with the details of what that means. What is a reasonable amount to compensate? He has a history of inflating prices in his dealings with family & then not necessarily doing the work. I want to be fair while fulfilling my fiduciary responsibilities. I have POA.

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Starkly..you don’t answer some basic questions I have....just to clarify that you would still be rotating through the caretaking duties..so I am assuming that you both have own residences for the remaining time..otherwise room and board would be a benefit but not if you need to maintain own place as well. If he is being compensated then you should also be. Are you either retired or able to work remotely or some kind of business that can be done as well from moms home as your own? This makes a difference ..also estimating how much actual time is spent caring for mom. Taking to appts would count 100% but for cooking or food shopping , you need to do this anyway so I would not count that. Same for cleaning . Only actual time spent to dress, or bathe her ...so since she is still pretty independent ..the hours per week might not add up to much. And again..if bro is not always reliable ..mom might not be getting bathed or dressed daily and might have cereal and soup not regular meals from him. I’d have something spelling our expectations and remuneration for both of you . Would not be right if only he was paid and then gets same inheritance as you. ( for myself , two siblings live with parent , who doesn’t get much care from them ..has an aide who does bathing , dresses self, does need meals and laundry and cleaning ..all of,which is done by one sibling while both live there and pay nothing and even have their adult children living there who do little or nothing . Yet all will share eventually whatever is left they have been living there without paying since even before parents required any help whatsoever ..so have reaped the benefits of that. Also, if parent was in right mind , would never be allowing this now ..with all 4 living there but not paying anything ..made me pay some of the bills when I was just a teenager working after school and later when graduated college and was starting work prior to moving out but still paying tuition loans .. yes if not someone there would not be able to remain home but there is a diff between helping and just being s freeloader. ). So make sure you are both in same boat.
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I cared for an aunt with Parkinson’s for the last 3 Yrs of her life, she died with at least enough to cover another year of care had it been needed. She was in assisted living paying 8900. A month. Her POA sister hired me to house and care for her at 5000 a month. From that amount I paid for, her extra helpers when I was out, all her food, dry goods and personal needs. I also continued to take her to her dr appointments. I did cut out many of her dr. Only kept her neurologist, switched to a podiatrist that came to my home, and a home visiting dentist. It was a lot of work( PD is no fun for anyone involved) she was on hospice last year of her life.
let me tell ya, looking back it’s understandable how AL was getting short of 9000 a month. As her PD turned to dementia the last 2 Yrs of her life, she would have been in MC at 1200 a month. I gave her a good deal and after she died I received 10,000, from what was left. Sister could have left us out of that inheritance, everyone knew she got a good deal living with us. It was tough work, I learned a lot. I would do it again, but not for less.
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NeedHelpWithMom Oct 2020
You earned every single cent! My mom has Parkinson’s disease. It’s a tough job!
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Imho, that is each caregiver's personal decision. For myself, I left my home to move in with my mother 7 states away from my own. I did not expect nor did I receive any monetary compensation, since my mother lived on poverty wages of $1,223/month. I was richly blessed in many other ways, such as my lovely mother's companionship.
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I gave up a successful career to come home to take care of mom six years ago.

I make up her meds and make sure she takes them, do housework, go to doctors appointments with her (because she lies like a rug and tells them what she wants them to hear not what they need to hear). Cut the grass, take care of the garden, shovel the driveway in the winter, take out the garbage, make sure she does her exercises.

I did this for two years with no pay until someone told me I should be getting 1,500 a month. Whenever I mention this she tells me I should, in effect, be kissing her @ss because she puts a roof over my head, food in my belly and clothes on my back (which she gets for free at the church clothes give away).

Meanwhile she gives money every month to her ufpos (useless, freeloading pieces of sh%t ) elder son and granddaughter living in another city who have not come down to help me in the time I have been here.

Her doctor has told her that if I leave, she will be put in a seniors home. She insists she can live alone but she knows better.

One thing to note is that if you are a live in caregiver you must put it in writing when you leave and have the doctor sign a document that they have received said notice.
Otherwise, you could be charged with reckless abandonment, senior abuse and another charge that I cannot remember. That happened to someone here whose mother threw him out then cried to the police that he abandoned her. He had a tough time clearing himself.

Believe me these folks know how to be drama queens and manipulative.

I live in Ontario Canada. If anybody knows what rights live in caregivers have and web sites please help me out with their web site.

As for this situation, if he is doing the same amount of work he should be compensated.

Another thing to note is that being a caregiver is the most stressful thing you can do. Anybody want to challenge me on that I dare you to take of an aged parent for a year and see what it takes out of you.

I would say we are the silent suffers in society.
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moms2nddaughter Oct 2020
OMG. I would have guessed you were talking about MY mother. She tells me that if I don’t straighten up I will lose my happy home! I have been here 24/7 for 7 years. She will be 95 next month. She thinks she is a princess. I do all of the above. Housework, cooking, meds, appts., shopping, laundry, changing bed. “Fixing” the remote several times a day, theTV, House alarm, sewing machine, opening all bottles, containers. She can not do anything any longer. And yes, she lies like a rug too!! We have scavenger hunts everyday as she can’t remember where anything is, and she hides things! I just wanted to jump in to let you know that we must be sisters of other mothers. 😂😂. Keep your sanity. Mine got lost years ago. Good luck!!
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Don't get cheap on a family member as a care giver & home health. That only backfires and there's bitterness, fractures & hurt in the end. Think a 24/7 home health & care giver as $ 20/hour, 24/7 is $ 480/day, $ 3,360/week, $ 174,720/year. If you want to deduct rent & shared bills, go ahead. But that's what it costs to pay someone else to do far less. See a care giver/home health isn't going to be the property maintenance & manager, take the patient to doctor appointments, take care of a pet, grocery shop & prepare meals around the clock. And that money comes from the estate somehow, some way. You can employ family or you can pay a lousy unaffordable healthcare system to do the bare minimum.
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Have you considered selling the house and putting your mom in assisted living? My family is in the process of putting my mom in assisted living that is in our same town.
It might be a better long term solution
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Are you saying you plan to continue the rotation of duties with siblings, but this one sibling wants payment? Or does he plan to move in permanently and get paid for being full time caregiver?

If he plans to continue rotation, but with payment, there's going to be issues later on that you would never think would happen in your family. To avoid the nastiness that will arise when the estate has to be settled - he will have been draining the finances and will still get his share of the leftovers. The rest of you get leftovers and that's it - talk to an elder attorney and set up the same payment arrangement for all siblings Everyone gets paid the same and everyone will get the same split when estate is settled.

Of course, this arrangement will spend her money up faster so you have to consider what will be done when/if her cash money is all gone and she still needs care. Will everyone go back to free rotation work? Will mom go to a facility?

The elder attorney can do a legal contract and help you with paperwork to report these earnings to IRS because everyone will need to report the earnings to prevent problems for mom later on if she needs a Medicaid bed (if she ran out of cash money). Otherwise, it could be viewed as gifting to a child and all of you would have to figure out how to pay for a facility during her penalty period that Medicaid does not pay anything.

There always has to be that ONE person who figures out how to make a buck off mama, isn't there. At least your rotation deal worked out for a while. Many of us on this site have plenty of siblings and they don't even do that much. Just remember that hired caregivers (not w/an agency) are going to make about $15 an hour (maybe more/less in your area) and brother might be wanting 24/7 pay. If he moves in and saves on his own rent or mortgage/utils, those things need to be considered as part of his payment, in my opinion, all of the bills for the house (cable,phone,utils, etc)
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Invisible Oct 2020
This was an EXCELLENT answer. Went through this on a smaller scale. Sibling that wanted to be paid wanted me to pay his cell phone in case he needed to call me with questions. Did not live up to the 1 week arrangement we made for him to fill in for the PT home care person we were lucky enough to have.

I hope you will clip My2cents answer and show it to your siblings. They may balk at having to go to an Elder Attorney and report income on their taxes, but the more formal the arrangement the better.
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I have found that HomePay a very good solution for payroll services. You will still need to apply for State Workman's Compensation yourself, but they handle everything else.

Three additional reasons to support paying your brother and wife:
1) Leave mom's estate plan in place. Feelings that he is due more, because he cared for mom is compensated on a weekly basis, not from her will or trust after her death.
2) Don't know how old your brother and his wife are, but if getting paid a modest amount allows your brother to hold off taking Social Security until 70 1/2 for the higher benefit amount, then that can be a win for your mom and them.
3) If they are not yet of retirement age then it may be important to continue to pay into Social Security for purposes of calculating future benefit. $0 years can drag down the average.
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I have a caretaker coming in 3 hours on Sunday morning for my husband . The agency gets $21. And hour . The caretaker get $15. of that. They sit and talk, take a walk and my man gets shaved and a hair cut when needed from this young man . 24/7 care from an agency is very steep .
Are both you/ husband and brother/ wife retired ?. Is that what gives you freedom to do what you have been doing ? You have eluded to the fact that brothers does not always deliver what he says. I suggest you listen to his proposal and go from there . I might also run it my an elder attorney..
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A contract is a must.
Detailing what he or his wife will do in the contract.
I would suggest adding in that the contract should be reviewed every 6 months. The reason I suggest that is as your mom declines the work that they will do will increase.
Are you going to continue to go down and help with the rotation or will it be just your brother and his wife? If you go down to help out where will you stay? Will it be at that house with them or are you going to have to rent a place? If so who will pay for that?
Who will take over for your brother and his wife when they need a break. No one can do this 24/7/365 they will need time off. And if they are to be actual employees legally they can not work 24/7.
Their income will have to be reported. Taxes will have to be taken out.
"Room and Board" is not part of their pay.
If you check the cost of what a caregiver gets in the area your mom lives that would give you a base as to what they should be compensated. If BOTH are caring for your mom. But if it is the wife that will be caring for her and your brother is going to have an outside job then he would not get paid for caring for her. Unless he did either caregiving or work on the house to keep it maintained.
An agency would charge less for a caregiver that is a "basic" caregiver. In some areas a caregiver can not give medication so if your mom is taking medication an agency might charge you ore because a nurse would have to be assigned. Although hiring privately you can instruct a caregiver to give medication. There are different regulations that an agency has to follow.
Again, whatever contract you come up with I would review it every 6 months because the work will increase.
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I agree strongly with the recommendation that you get professional input not only on the amount, but also on creating a formal but flexible agreement (for all the good reasons stated by previous posters).

You're entering a minefield, and no sooner have you taken the first step than you're facing a fork in the path, even on just the amount of compensation itself -

1. compensating the caregiver for lost earnings (which could vary from 0 to sky's the limit, depending on each person's employment status AND potential, which is even more complicated when there's a rotating schedule as you have among you);

2. comparing rates with those of commercial/professional services, but in that case - as you've already spotted - you have to nail down what's included. And you may find that that in itself is a bit like nailing down blancmange.

Please let us know how the discussions go, I think you may become a valuable case study (in a good way!!!).
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How well do you get along with your brother's wife? Is she the one who will be doing most of the work?
Explain to him that payment for in home care over $600.00 has to be reported to the IRS as income. Since he has not been paid in the past, what has changed now? Actual work that he might be expected to do?
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My sister lived with and took care of our mother for about a year before we moved our mother to assisted living. My sister asked for nothing. The rest of us kids got together and had enough money in my mother's estate to buy my sister a new Honda Civic to replace the 10 year old car she was driving. We felt she had earned every penny and my sister was thrilled.
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Invisible Oct 2020
That was wonderful. Three cheers for your family.
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Home health care aides are usually paid minimum wage. Consider that he will get free room and board. His expenses for car: gas, maintenance and insurance would probably be a good gesture. He should be compensated for at least 8 hours of work every day.
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Invisible Oct 2020
I think paying his car expenses is/was generous on the part of the parents. They use that car for more than visiting his parents! Maybe pay for gas while they are there. I doubt there is enough money to pay each sibling for 24/7 care at the going rate. They should look toward assisted living instead.
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If you feel he and his wife will be good for your mother , then you can’t pay them enough ! !!!
otherwise look for outside caregiving either in her home or
assisted living....
Good luck
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Even $600.00 a month would cause problems with Medicaid. Is this an elder law attorney? If not, you need to talk with one.

The $600.00 a month may be based on staying under the income level to have to file a tax return?

Siblings have nothing to do with any agreement between you and mom. Maybe you are misunderstanding? Maybe it was a keep the peace concern?
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craftslady1 Oct 2020
No, it isn't per month. The $600 means earned income of $600 from one source over a whole YEAR needs to be reported to the IRS!
On the other hand, a gift of $600 does not.
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Having been caregiver for my wife for 12 years, and despite being with her every day to my extreme satisfaction due to how happy it made her, I nevertheless was more than exhausted much of the time. I urge you to realize that "hands-on" caregiving over time takes a lot of one's life away..Be generous.

Grace + peace,

Bob
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On the advice of my mothers attorney he said that as a caregiver she could only “gift” $600 a month to me. Otherwise we would have to draw up a contract and have my other siblings agree to an amount per week or month and then have applicable taxes taken out just like an employee. Well that’s all fine and good as long as everyone is in agreement. I have one sibling that will not even show up at the attorneys office because she won’t communicate with us.
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CTTN55 Oct 2020
That is odd that the attorney said your mother could only gift $600/month to you. I thought the limit was $15,000k/year, which is a lot more than $600/month! So are you getting $600/month? What do your siblings do to help? (ETA -- I see from a previous post absolutely nothing.)

Are you receiving state benefits or disability or something, and is that why you are limited to only being able to receive $600/month?
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I’m currently helping my Mom 81 recover from surgery and her partner whose 86. They are supplementing my income. It’s a very modest amount,$250.00 a week. This includes me taking care of both of them, medications, meals, laundry, house cleaning, shopping, errands, doctor appts. pet care and my mother’s daily infusions. This amount was based on my part time job amount. I wasn’t trying to take advantage of anyone. I have my own house and family. I’m wanting to go home and have looked into, fees can run $10-30 an hour. In my parents case, they have too many valuables and do not want anyone in their mini mansion. We have now decided I will come 3 days a week. In all sincerity, they both need to be in a Assisted Living facility, they don’t want to leave their last freedom and the unknown. Good Luck, after all it’s family.
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Sarah, there are a number of IRS bulletins that address family caregivers.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/family-caregivers-and-self-employment-tax

Some elderly have lots of cash and do not need to think about future need for Medicaid, then fine, they will never have to provide Medicaid five years of financial account information. If there are gifts detected then the Medicaid eligibility is denied until those sums are repaid or a penalty period is up.

What is the gift amount now? $15,000.00? The care that bro will be providing is certainly more than that! The gift amount has absolutely nothing to do with Medicaid qualification. In fact, in the IRS bulletin about gifting, tax free, there should be mention about the impact on Medicaid qualification if gifting is done. This catches many families off guard.

When Medicaid denies a claim due to gifting some other option is needed for the elder until the amount gifted is worked off or paid out of someone's pocket based on your states cost of nursing homes. There needs to be a care agreement in place and medically necessary care provided and all taxes and other deductions withheld for Medicaid to grant coverage when money has been doled out, even if it is for legitimate care.

https://www.elderlawanswers.com/how-gifts-can-affect-medicaid-eligibility-10006

https://www.elderlawanswers.com/medicaids-asset-transfer-rules-12015
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I would not advise you to get price quotes from a homecare agency to determine a fair compensation. Believe me, they inflate their prices beyond what your brother's imagination can come up with and the actual caregiver usually gets minimum wage or just above it. Sit down with him an calculate what his expenses are. Will he be missing wages from work because he's staying with your mom? Will he have to maintain a separate household for his family while he's caring for mom? Questions like this.
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Call around to care agencies in the area to ask what in home 24/7 care would cost. Prepare to be shocked. In my area it runs in the area of 12K a month.

You need a contract to maintain mom's Medicaid eligibility in case that becomes an issue. Mom will become an employer so taxes, etc will be deducted from any payment.

If bro is paid, you should be too.
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Sarah3 Oct 2020
What would in your view determine the mother becomes an employer, is it the amount they’re compensated ? They’re discussing compensation, families do that all the time it can be a gift between family, as long as it’s kept just below a the amount where it’s taxed
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If your brother starts getting compensation, it seems to me you should also.
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Definitely sit down with your brother AND a lawyer, preferably at the same time. There are other things to take into consideration besides pay- such as vacations, if your brother should get sick, who will arrange for alternative coverage, etc. Will he be expected to provide 24/7 care? As she grows older, her care needs are going to increase, not decrease. Will you have the funds available for the likely inevitability that she will need more care than your brother and his wife will be able to provide? You should also talk to each other on a regular basis, to determine what's been working well and what needs to be changed. You have to enter this in the mindset that this is a business arrangement. Be very clear with your brother about what you expect; and be equally open about listening to him with what he expects. If you can't come to a meeting of the minds, my suggestion is to scrap the entire idea of paying family and hiring an agency, rather than risking hurt feelings/a family rift down the road. Because if that happens, it's going to be your mom who suffers the most, and clearly none of you want that.
Good luck!
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Sarah3 Oct 2020
The potential damage between siblings if this occurred would be just as damaging if not more so than it would be to the mother, but either way hopefully they can work together amicably so their sibling relationships aren’t damaged
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I absolutely agree with CWillie. Negotiate this with a lawyer. Apparently your parents can afford this care, and the investment in an elder law attorney to write a good contract with duties and such would work really well in this instance. And would be paid for out of your Mom's assets. That helps take the pressure and burden off you.
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Hi Starklymad,
You'll get a variety of answers on this idea, because some people are opposed to paying family members citing family duty, and others are very clear that the sacrifice to your own personal life and savings make paying for care for a family member absolutely ok. I'm on the side of paying for care if your mom has the means, but everyone needs to be transparent about expectations and reimbursements because when siblings and spouses are involved there's always the chance of feelings getting messy...
this is probably more formal than what you need, but you could create an official care plan and compare the costs of rent something like this article lays out.
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/hiring-a-live-in-caregiver-pros-and-cons-462329.htm
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I think that now is the time to work with an elder law attorney, they should be able to give you an idea of fair compensation according to your circumstances and set up a caregiving contract that will ensure everything is acceptable should medicaid be needed in the future.
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