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Can you tell us a bit more? Does this come from poor control or from eating something that disagrees? Is he going from a bit constipated to diarrhea? Does he eat things that are very gas-producing like taking metamucil daily, or other laxative products?
Hard to say if this is now the norm for him due to poor sphincter control. Does he handle this reliably with wearing an incontinent underwear, and able to clean up after it without soiling things in the home?
Thank you for your reply. I didn’t want to go into too much detail right away, so I apologize. He takes Metformin, my sister had been buying him Metamucil tablets. And I have switched him to benefiber to help bulk. He wasn’t consistent with the powder. He also drinks an average of three 10oz cups of coffee/day. He wears cotton briefs. He does what he can to help minimize the mess although he has an unconventional way of doing it. I clean whatever he missed. I have asked him to wear the depends when he goes out just to give him a little aid til he gets home. Yes he still drives. I’m not PoA, one of my sisters is. Family breakdown. I appreciate all suggestions. So thank you for taking the time.
Well, sometimes. I don’t like to be too graphic but he puts toilet paper in his briefs. So he understands.
thank you for the comment. It kind of made me chuckle a little. I know it’s not a laughing matter, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked for advice. I want to make his years on earth a little bit better.
The only way you can help him(other than placing him in the appropriate facility)would be to throw away all of his regular underwear and replace it with the Depends "underwear."
You say nothing about him having Dementia. And if your cleaning up the mess, yes you have someting to worry about. Time for Depends and a cognitive assessment for Denentia if not already done.
thank you for responding. I know he has short term memory loss. He does what he can to minimize the mess i.e. rinsing, and kind of cleaning himself up. I clean whatever has been left behind. Since I am not PoA I have only spoken to him about wearing disposable briefs. Mostly to improve the quality of life. I have also suggested to my sister to talk to the Dr about changes in his diet or removing a medication that could be contributing to it only to have it fall on deaf ears. Lots of family denial. Thank you again.
The fact that he has no empathy for the fact you have to live with it tells me he probably has dementia. By the time LOs and close family are seeing symptoms regularly, he is probably already at a moderate level.
Yes to getting him tested. Tell him Medicare gives him a free annual physical. Help him make the appointment if he can't/won't do it himself. Go with him and slip a pre-written note to the staff asking to give him a cognitive and memory exam due to the symptoms he's showing. They will be glad to accommodate this.
In the bigger picture though... are you his PoA? Does he have one? If so, this is the person who now must read the document and do what it says to activate the authority. If he doesn't have a PoA I would encourage him to assign one with the help of an elder law attorney. FYI if he refuses to assign you (since you live with him) this would be a deal breaker for me and I would not be living with him. It will become more and more difficult to manage him and his affairs legally as dementia robs more and more of his cognitive abilities.
Definitely remove all his cloth briefs and replace with disposables. Don't accept any argument from him over this. Walk away if you have to since he is obviously not "getting it". It may also be time to find someone to help him with his regular showering if this is also an issue...
Thank you for your suggestions. I am not his PoA. One of my sisters is. I have asked her to speak with his Dr.(she goes with him). They do short cognitive tests and that’s about it. He has a prostate issue too but I was told he’s just getting older. Hygiene has been an issue. Taking away his briefs is an excellent idea. I would have never thought of that. Huge family dynamic here.
I cleaned up cow patties for almost 2 years, till we finally found a Fibercon tablet protocol that's enough to keep things moving without clogging things up. I give my DW one Fibercon tab on Tuesdays and Fridays. I also give her a good probiotic every day. That seems to keep her bowls balanced pretty well.
I also keep an assortment of gastrointestinal aids on hand to use as needed such as stool softener, anti-diarrhea and anti-acid tabs that I give at the earliest signs of distress.
And of course, she wears pull-ups most of the time and uses the bedside commode if she can't make it to the toilet.
Thanks for the suggestions. Fibercon. He’s pretty stubborn. So giving him a probiotic may be an issue. He’s never had a problem with constipation. Unless this is all breakthrough. Anti acids? Interesting. Anti diarrheal I can maybe have on hand. Thank you again. I appreciate all advice. Positive thoughts.
while he does visit the rest of the family, I feel they’re not willing to accept his declination. I moved in because of a financial setback a few years ago. Knowing he would need some sort of supervision. He had been known to leave candles burning when he left the house or forget a pot boiling on the stove until all water had evaporated. I do not have a relationship with the PoA anymore. (Sister). That’s a whole other thing. thank you for showing a concern and everyone on the forum. It has been helpful so far.😊
Metformin may be contributing to the problem. I had been on Metformin for many years (polycystic ovarian syndrome) and started having my own bowel "issues." In mentioning this to my primary care MD, she took me off the Metformin. My issue was resolved! Perhaps your dad can be switched to another medication. Good luck!!!
Both of my parents suffered from incontinence. If your dad isn't wearing briefs, he should be. Eventually, they aren't aware when they go any more. I hope that doesn't happen with your dad.
He's not complaining and doesn't want you to worry (sounds more like he doesn't want you calling attention to it).
What does that mean exactly? Is he going in his clothes? Does he clean himself up successfully?
You can help him by providing incontinence products, and even helping with the clean up if he is unable to do on his own. That means adult diapers, wipes, gloves, and it wouldn't hurt to buy some disposable pads to cover his chair and bed.
He may not feel comfortable with you wiping his behind. Or you may not want to do that. If so, then it is time to hire aides to help.
My MIL had the same problem with Metformin. When she went on hospice they discontinued that and it was a great relief for her. It really embarrassed her a lot and she wore disposable underwear all the time when she lived with us, even though she was still able to use the toilet with help.
His lack of care is a little concerning. I’d say you are well within your rights to insist on Depends considering you are the one cleaning the mess he misses. Caregiving has to work for the caregiver.
My husband had to stop all coffee. It caused him to have uncontrollable bowl movements. He couldn’t get to the toilet fast enough. Eliminating coffee helped.
Yes—30oz/day is far too much, even if it were decaf. (Of course, I am assuming it is of regular strength or stronger.) You live there and caretake him, if he had not been declared incompetent, POA has nothing to do with any decision you act upon. Please don’t let your sister run over you, you are the caregiver and he must be in disposable briefs.
Is your Dad cleaning himself up? It sounds like he might be, since you haven't said you are cleaning him up, and part of your question is can you even help him. I agree with others that suggested Depends. Also the others that suggested this might be a reaction to medication. My husband was briefly on iron pills. The doctor said it would probably cause constipation. Instead it caused daily explosive diarrhea. The doctor didn't believe the iron pills were the cause. My husband stopped the iron pills and the diarrhea stopped. Later on, he developed bowel and bladder urgency. He had to wear depends, and at times that would leak. He was horribly embarrassed and didn't want me to help him clean himself up. Your Dad may be embarrassed to have you help him since you are his daughter. Also, when my Mom got older and incontinent, she would rather have her aid help her clean up instead of me, saying "I never imagined my daughter would be wiping my butt". Men are usually even more private about such things. Please find out if there is anything medical going on with your Dad and encourage him to wear Depends for now. Tell him it could be for the short term for now. That's how you can best help.
mommoo, I have read your responses. I'm so sorry you are the one taking care of this, while someone else has POA.
There a lot of great suggestions here, and great advice. I hope you get it worked out. Try and get the sister with POA involved and maybe hire an aide to come help at least once a week, if not more.
Unfortunately, many family member see their parent's money as their inheritance and are reluctant to spend it. Your parents worked hard and their money is to take care of their needs. There may be something left over when he dies, but meeting his needs now is the primary focus.
You could go to court to challenge your sister's POA role. But that would cost a lot of money, time, and emotional investment. You probably don't have that now. Figure out how to work with what you do have, and try and get your sister to relinquish money for your father's care.
This has been a longstanding problem with my mom, mainly triggered by high fat, high sugar foods which she cannot resist. Urgent need to go, then the explosion. I took away all her regular underwear as suggested here. Now she’s on very high fiber gummies which helps but the problem is just less often. My dad became very incontinent (urinary only) a few years before he passed at 90, and he was really resistant to the IC briefs. Too expensive, too infantile, downplayed the issue (“it doesn’t show bc I wear jeans”), etc. I could see him going all magical-reality about something like this if he had the problem longer…this is without dementia, just stubborn. My mom has MCI/early dementia and zero impulse control, so restricting her diet is impossible (she’s in AL - they won’t stop her) but at least I don’t have to clean it up now.
I’ve just finished reading “The Happy Bowell” by a gastroenterologist. Among many other things, he says that too many people think that food is all that matters, and don’t realise that the bowel can malfunction just as much as any other organ. He compares it to diabetes – no-one would assume that food is all that matters for that.
He says that women and men’s bowels function differently and have different issues, and that medications have an inappropriately bad name because they are often over-the-counter and then abused. Appropriately used medication can solve problems and often “re-train” the bowel to function normally.
Based on “The Happy Bowel” I’d say get him to a gastroenterologist. It was a very interesting book!
PoA not involved? If you are going to be making appts, on top of caring, you will need PoA. What happens when things get dicey? They may be not as dicey right now, but if you are the caregiver at this point, this is a big flag for everyone in the family. Your hand may be forced in this situation. I am talking police and whatever Aging agency is in your neck of the woods. Once Drs. are involved, they may be required to report, and your sister's name will come up. Words of wisdom: Take care of yourself before you can take care of others!
As long as he isn't having pain or bloody stool, this may just be a fact of life for him. If he is soiling himself, it is probably time for disposable incontinence briefs. Pull-ups look a lot like regular briefs but can pull apart at the seams if needed. Might also want to invest in a bidet attachment for the toilet - so he can clean himself afterwards.
Worked with the elderly for 40 years as a CNA. He is embarrassed by it and trying to hide the fact he is incontinent. Would have a conversation with him about wearing pull ups under his clothes. Be mindful how you approach it. Walmart sells mens pull ups and pads like the poise pads for women for added protection inside the pull ups.
It might be time for him to live in assisted living facility or a place where he can get 24/7 aide / professional care. You do not tell us how this affects you and/or how he manages the situation. He may not be able to make decisions in his best interest so his 'not complaining,' according to him may not be the main issue - it could be accidents in the bed, carpets, floors, on his hands.
I believe the way you can help him is to consider placement, hiring caregivers, and making sure all legal documents are in order for you to make needed decisions.
Discuss with his MD - although this is likely unavoidable behavior. It is a matter of how you (decide) to manage it. It is a hygiene concern.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Does this come from poor control or from eating something that disagrees?
Is he going from a bit constipated to diarrhea?
Does he eat things that are very gas-producing like taking metamucil daily, or other laxative products?
Hard to say if this is now the norm for him due to poor sphincter control.
Does he handle this reliably with wearing an incontinent underwear, and able to clean up after it without soiling things in the home?
All of this is a question of "it just depends".
I appreciate all suggestions. So thank you for taking the time.
thank you for the comment. It kind of made me chuckle a little. I know it’s not a laughing matter, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked for advice. I want to make his years on earth a little bit better.
Yes to getting him tested. Tell him Medicare gives him a free annual physical. Help him make the appointment if he can't/won't do it himself. Go with him and slip a pre-written note to the staff asking to give him a cognitive and memory exam due to the symptoms he's showing. They will be glad to accommodate this.
In the bigger picture though... are you his PoA? Does he have one? If so, this is the person who now must read the document and do what it says to activate the authority. If he doesn't have a PoA I would encourage him to assign one with the help of an elder law attorney. FYI if he refuses to assign you (since you live with him) this would be a deal breaker for me and I would not be living with him. It will become more and more difficult to manage him and his affairs legally as dementia robs more and more of his cognitive abilities.
Definitely remove all his cloth briefs and replace with disposables. Don't accept any argument from him over this. Walk away if you have to since he is obviously not "getting it". It may also be time to find someone to help him with his regular showering if this is also an issue...
I also keep an assortment of gastrointestinal aids on hand to use as needed such as stool softener, anti-diarrhea and anti-acid tabs that I give at the earliest signs of distress.
And of course, she wears pull-ups most of the time and uses the bedside commode if she can't make it to the toilet.
Positive thoughts.
thank you for showing a concern and everyone on the forum. It has been helpful so far.😊
What does that mean exactly? Is he going in his clothes? Does he clean himself up successfully?
You can help him by providing incontinence products, and even helping with the clean up if he is unable to do on his own. That means adult diapers, wipes, gloves, and it wouldn't hurt to buy some disposable pads to cover his chair and bed.
He may not feel comfortable with you wiping his behind. Or you may not want to do that. If so, then it is time to hire aides to help.
His lack of care is a little concerning. I’d say you are well within your rights to insist on Depends considering you are the one cleaning the mess he misses. Caregiving has to work for the caregiver.
You live there and caretake him, if he had not been declared incompetent, POA has nothing to do with any decision you act upon. Please don’t let your sister run over you, you are the caregiver and he must be in disposable briefs.
I agree with others that suggested Depends. Also the others that suggested this might be a reaction to medication.
My husband was briefly on iron pills. The doctor said it would probably cause constipation. Instead it caused daily explosive diarrhea. The doctor didn't believe the iron pills were the cause. My husband stopped the iron pills and the diarrhea stopped. Later on, he developed bowel and bladder urgency. He had to wear depends, and at times that would leak. He was horribly embarrassed and didn't want me to help him clean himself up.
Your Dad may be embarrassed to have you help him since you are his daughter.
Also, when my Mom got older and incontinent, she would rather have her aid help her clean up instead of me, saying "I never imagined my daughter would be wiping my butt". Men are usually even more private about such things.
Please find out if there is anything medical going on with your Dad and encourage him to wear Depends for now. Tell him it could be for the short term for now. That's how you can best help.
I have read your responses. I'm so sorry you are the one taking care of this, while someone else has POA.
There a lot of great suggestions here, and great advice. I hope you get it worked out. Try and get the sister with POA involved and maybe hire an aide to come help at least once a week, if not more.
Unfortunately, many family member see their parent's money as their inheritance and are reluctant to spend it. Your parents worked hard and their money is to take care of their needs. There may be something left over when he dies, but meeting his needs now is the primary focus.
You could go to court to challenge your sister's POA role. But that would cost a lot of money, time, and emotional investment. You probably don't have that now. Figure out how to work with what you do have, and try and get your sister to relinquish money for your father's care.
He says that women and men’s bowels function differently and have different issues, and that medications have an inappropriately bad name because they are often over-the-counter and then abused. Appropriately used medication can solve problems and often “re-train” the bowel to function normally.
Based on “The Happy Bowel” I’d say get him to a gastroenterologist. It was a very interesting book!
If you are going to be making appts, on top of caring, you will need PoA.
What happens when things get dicey? They may be not as dicey right now, but if you are the caregiver at this point, this is a big flag for everyone in the family.
Your hand may be forced in this situation. I am talking police and whatever Aging agency is in your neck of the woods. Once Drs. are involved, they may be required to report, and your sister's name will come up.
Words of wisdom: Take care of yourself before you can take care of others!
I believe the way you can help him is to consider placement, hiring caregivers, and making sure all legal documents are in order for you to make needed decisions.
Discuss with his MD - although this is likely unavoidable behavior.
It is a matter of how you (decide) to manage it. It is a hygiene concern.
Gena / Touch Matters
if so he may not want to give it up and still deal with the inconvenience … even tho that affects everybody.