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Is the person who's proposing that you pay rent also proposing that your mother should pay you for the support you have provided for a decade? I hope that person has done his arithmetic, assuming he aims to act in your mother's best interests.
Thanks for your reply. That opinion comes from my sister, who has Parkinson's and comes to visit with her husband so that I have to take care of her as well. Both she and my mother are incontinent and cannot walk unaided. They cannot cook or clean up the kitchen or the bathroom. They forget how to operate the TV remote, and I am called upon every day to fix the TV for them. After 20 years of living in this house, my sister is annoyed that my artwork is displayed, and my paperwork is often on the dining room table. They don't answer the phone, and want me to field all the calls for spammers, and then hand the phone to them. Then, they make the absurd claim behind my back that I "hate the family." The Comcast service, which I have been paying for 20 years, is more than the mortgage that my parents paid on the house. My mother can do little else than watch TV, otherwise I would not have TV. All I need is the internet. The house phone comes with Comcast, so my mother can talk to anyone she wants as long as she wants, and she never gets a bill. But they still claim that I am staying here "rent free." If I COULD pay rent, it would not be HERE.
There is always a back story but if you have been caring for your GM for even one month (much less 10 yrs) you should not be paying rent. You should be getting paid in addition to room and board.
Thanks for your supportive answer! When this house is sold upon the death of my mother, she intends to divide the sale proceeds 8 ways, because she had 8 kids - six after me. But I am the one who has provided her 24/7 care. One sister helps out, but she is often out of the country traveling with her husband. They all assume that I am here to take care of Mom.
You have a clear answer here – no you shouldn’t pay rent and yes you should be compensated. The next question is what do you do about it.
People often don’t do the right thing when it’s against their own interests. You know already that your sister and her husband are being totally unreasonable, and the chances are that you aren’t going to change that. You need to work out what you want, talk to your mother, and make sure it happens by instructing a lawyer (with your mother if she is legally competent) . Then you present it to your sister and other siblings. At present you have a good bargaining position because your work is essential. That's difficult, but it's your bargaining advantage. Your justification is the totally unreasonable comments and expectations from your sister and brother in law. If you leave it until after your mother dies, you won’t have a leg to stand on - your sister will probably insist on rent or take steps to make you leave the house which is your home.
So what do you want? You can justify morally payment for 10 years (and legally for the future) at the payment rate for a live-in carer, net of board and lodging. That will be such a large amount that you can present it and then negotiate down as a compromise. You can secure it as a debt against your mother’s asset (eg the house), and the lawyer should have it noted on the title. You need to be prepared to leave if your siblings take legal action to stop you doing this. They have an arguable case about the back payments on the grounds that you agreed to do it for free. No case for the future. A court action would almost certainly have to settle, and that is where the compromise comes in.
You are probably thinking about the alternative of your mother leaving a larger share to you in her will. You say ‘she intends to divide the sale proceeds 8 ways’. Has she already made a will in these terms? Is she legally competent to make a will if she hasn’t done so already, or to change her will if she has? This strategy would provide an arguable case that she isn’t competent, or that you have undue influence. It would be much harder for you to defend, and less likely to settle, particularly if she has already told all your siblings that this is what she intends. I wouldn’t recommend going this way.
I think you need to prepare yourself for some very difficult times, and see a lawyer to sort out what you want, and as well to provide you with some backbone support. Best wishes in a difficult situation.
In my case, following the court order I be paid a certain amount the twisteds tried to get me to sign a caregiver contract that gave me the authority to do as I pleased as far as mom's care went. (And I was paid some back pay.)They TRIED to pull a fast one, with such a contract I would have become an independent contractor and responsible for paying taxes, Medicare, disability, etc etc out of the piddly amount I was to be paid.
I responded to POA twisted that i appreciated the ability to hire outside care when I needed to get away for awhile 😆, one of the qualifiers that makes you a contractor as opposed to an employee. OMG was I corrected I did not have the right to do that! My response (I knew she did not understand the terms of the contract nor what is the difference between a contractor and an employee) was she had better read the contract. My attorney chimed in to the other attorney stating that it would be perfectly clear to Medicaid that payment to me was for services that I was providing and not subject to look back. I was an employee.
Dysfunction and greedy siblings, gotta be very careful, they will try to take advantage every chance they get.
My brother-in-law is better than he was. He does not leave my sister here for weekends anymore. Now, he drops her off, and then goes out for take-out food to eat here. I cook every day, and bring home enough food for myself and my mother. I serve her in her room in front of the TV and close to her bathroom. She does not have to do anything but eat before it gets cold - otherwise, I have to heat it up again. I serve her hot tea several times per day, with every meal, and first thing in the morning with her pills. My sister eats the food that her husband brings, and then goes to the kitchen to look for deserts. She eats the ice cream that I buy for myself and my mother - without asking or saying thanks. She keeps reminding me that I "live here rent free" so that gives her the right to do anything she wants. I'm pretty sure that she would do the same thing even if I DID pay rent.
I think you already know the answer but are looking for validation. Right? Consider yourself validated. Short answer is NO, or let me say it perfectly clear, ABSOLUTELY NOT to paying rent! If you don't mind me being blunt, you are being short changed here. I suppose that is the polite way of saying that you have been screwed.
If anyone owes anyone anything, she owes you. So draw up a caregiver's contract. You can't collect for back pay. Oh, how I wish that you could because it would be the icing on the cake, wouldn't it?
My friend did that at work. The man that she trained accidentally left his paycheck visible on his desk. She happened to see it. She was appalled when she saw that he was making more money just for being a man. It gets worse! It was his first job out of college, so it wasn't like he came into the company with a ton of experience. She had been with the company for years.
She took the company to court. She ended up with one hell of a judge, who was awesome! The judge ordered not only an increase in her wages to equal or surpass his but back pay for all of the months that he got paid.
So, go after what you deserve. Don't accept being a doormat. You are a kind soul and have been taken advantage of because of your good nature. If you think I am picking on you I am not. I made the same mistake. I took care of my mom in my home for 15 years. I did not charge her rent, nor did I get a salary for being her caregiver. You are doing it for 10 years. Don't catch up to me. You'll be sorry! I burned out and so will you. All without compensation. Worth it? Don't think so.
Oh boy, the sibling thing hits a nerve with me. I have crappy siblings too. My mom favored them. Well, it backfired on all of them because I finally threw my hands up in the air and sent mom packing to live with my brother. Sometimes there just can't be harmony. God knows I tried. I really wanted nothing more than peace in my home. I am sure that is all you want too. I feel your pain, truly I do. Stand up to them. Please!
You know the answer to this...We are all behind you. Best wishes. Take care.
NeedHelpWithMom is so right, and she has been there, providing 24/7/365 care for an ungrateful and critical family. She's one of the great AgingCare success stories, because she extricated herself from the situation (many here never do).
"When this house is sold upon the death of my mother, she intends to divide the sale proceeds 8 ways, because she had 8 kids - six after me. But I am the one who has provided her 24/7 care."
Where are the other six (not counting your sister w/Parkinson's)???
Why does your mother think so little of you? Has she always? It is SO unfair to dump it all on one child when there are plenty of others. They are definitely expecting you to be the slave so that they can collect something when your mother dies.
Meanwhile, they are all living their lives, saving for retirement, building up SS credits, etc.
I am angry for you. I would like for you to be paid a LOT of money, including for caregiving in the past.
Thank you for your kind words but honestly I don't think I could have done it without this forum's help. You all will never know how much you mean to me. Truly, I was at my wit's end. I wish I had found this forum sooner and gone to my therapist sooner. Better late than never, I suppose.
Marte knows that $160K won't last her through a comfy old age, alas, even if it materialises; so I'm sure she also knows better than to believe it before she sees it (in her bank account).
I hope Marte doesn't think that $160,000 (or 1/8 of the sale of the house) will fund her old age. Marte, you need to do something. When your mother dies, whoever is the executor of the will might try to cheat you out of even your 1/8th of the proceeds of the house sale.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Is the person who's proposing that you pay rent also proposing that your mother should pay you for the support you have provided for a decade? I hope that person has done his arithmetic, assuming he aims to act in your mother's best interests.
SIBLIngs getting greedy and vindictive, are they? Happens with dysfunctional families, it did in mine.
People often don’t do the right thing when it’s against their own interests. You know already that your sister and her husband are being totally unreasonable, and the chances are that you aren’t going to change that. You need to work out what you want, talk to your mother, and make sure it happens by instructing a lawyer (with your mother if she is legally competent) . Then you present it to your sister and other siblings. At present you have a good bargaining position because your work is essential. That's difficult, but it's your bargaining advantage. Your justification is the totally unreasonable comments and expectations from your sister and brother in law. If you leave it until after your mother dies, you won’t have a leg to stand on - your sister will probably insist on rent or take steps to make you leave the house which is your home.
So what do you want? You can justify morally payment for 10 years (and legally for the future) at the payment rate for a live-in carer, net of board and lodging. That will be such a large amount that you can present it and then negotiate down as a compromise. You can secure it as a debt against your mother’s asset (eg the house), and the lawyer should have it noted on the title. You need to be prepared to leave if your siblings take legal action to stop you doing this. They have an arguable case about the back payments on the grounds that you agreed to do it for free. No case for the future. A court action would almost certainly have to settle, and that is where the compromise comes in.
You are probably thinking about the alternative of your mother leaving a larger share to you in her will. You say ‘she intends to divide the sale proceeds 8 ways’. Has she already made a will in these terms? Is she legally competent to make a will if she hasn’t done so already, or to change her will if she has? This strategy would provide an arguable case that she isn’t competent, or that you have undue influence. It would be much harder for you to defend, and less likely to settle, particularly if she has already told all your siblings that this is what she intends. I wouldn’t recommend going this way.
I think you need to prepare yourself for some very difficult times, and see a lawyer to sort out what you want, and as well to provide you with some backbone support. Best wishes in a difficult situation.
I responded to POA twisted that i appreciated the ability to hire outside care when I needed to get away for awhile 😆, one of the qualifiers that makes you a contractor as opposed to an employee. OMG was I corrected I did not have the right to do that! My response (I knew she did not understand the terms of the contract nor what is the difference between a contractor and an employee) was she had better read the contract. My attorney chimed in to the other attorney stating that it would be perfectly clear to Medicaid that payment to me was for services that I was providing and not subject to look back. I was an employee.
Dysfunction and greedy siblings, gotta be very careful, they will try to take advantage every chance they get.
(Why can't your brother-in-law take care of his wife when they visit?)
I think you already know the answer but are looking for validation. Right? Consider yourself validated. Short answer is NO, or let me say it perfectly clear, ABSOLUTELY NOT to paying rent! If you don't mind me being blunt, you are being short changed here. I suppose that is the polite way of saying that you have been screwed.
If anyone owes anyone anything, she owes you. So draw up a caregiver's contract. You can't collect for back pay. Oh, how I wish that you could because it would be the icing on the cake, wouldn't it?
My friend did that at work. The man that she trained accidentally left his paycheck visible on his desk. She happened to see it. She was appalled when she saw that he was making more money just for being a man. It gets worse! It was his first job out of college, so it wasn't like he came into the company with a ton of experience. She had been with the company for years.
She took the company to court. She ended up with one hell of a judge, who was awesome! The judge ordered not only an increase in her wages to equal or surpass his but back pay for all of the months that he got paid.
So, go after what you deserve. Don't accept being a doormat. You are a kind soul and have been taken advantage of because of your good nature. If you think I am picking on you I am not. I made the same mistake. I took care of my mom in my home for 15 years. I did not charge her rent, nor did I get a salary for being her caregiver. You are doing it for 10 years. Don't catch up to me. You'll be sorry! I burned out and so will you. All without compensation. Worth it? Don't think so.
Oh boy, the sibling thing hits a nerve with me. I have crappy siblings too. My mom favored them. Well, it backfired on all of them because I finally threw my hands up in the air and sent mom packing to live with my brother. Sometimes there just can't be harmony. God knows I tried. I really wanted nothing more than peace in my home. I am sure that is all you want too. I feel your pain, truly I do. Stand up to them. Please!
You know the answer to this...We are all behind you. Best wishes. Take care.
"When this house is sold upon the death of my mother, she intends to divide the sale proceeds 8 ways, because she had 8 kids - six after me. But I am the one who has provided her 24/7 care."
Where are the other six (not counting your sister w/Parkinson's)???
Why does your mother think so little of you? Has she always? It is SO unfair to dump it all on one child when there are plenty of others. They are definitely expecting you to be the slave so that they can collect something when your mother dies.
Meanwhile, they are all living their lives, saving for retirement, building up SS credits, etc.
I am angry for you. I would like for you to be paid a LOT of money, including for caregiving in the past.
Are you counting on that? Is that in her will? Who is the executor of her will?
(And who is her POA and HCPOA?)