My mother is starting to make end of life decisions as to how she wants things done. She has 5 children living and one sibling (the one she lives with) feels that all of her children should "chip in" and pay for cremation services and monument costs. How are final costs usually handled? My mother has no life insurance, however does have savings to cover costs needed to pre-plan her wishes. Not all children are able to contribute to these costs, WWIII is about to break out over this situation, HELP!
If possible, mom should pre-pay her final expenses. She can go to a funeral home and arrange that. Does she have a plot? Or a plan for her cremation, and remains?
My parents preplannex and prepaid their funeral arrangements. There were some additional expenses that were paid out of a checking account that was joint with POA sibling, so not frozen upon death.
It, therefore, is up to HER to pay for her last arrangements. There is nothing I know of, legally or otherwise, that says that her children have to pay for the cremation and internment. One of you should have access to the money in her account upon her death to pay the expenses.
If she has the money, but she wants the kids to "chip in", what would she then be doing with her money? Is she planning to give it to someone and needs to know that all her children will financially take care of her death?
This sounds fishy to me. "NO" should be the answer to your mother. That is her obligation to pay for her own arrangements. Then make sure you all have your rifles ready 'cause here comes WW3.
unassuming gravemarker. To this day, I don’t know what the heck my parents paid for all those years. Neither had funerals or memorial services. They did have plots, though, for which I am grateful. That would have been another $5,000. There was no inheritance and the cost all fell on us. We’re still dealing with the repercussions.
Make sure you know exactly what to expect when she passes. Get a copy of any pre-planning paperwork and memorize it, especially the fine print. I am an only lonely and couldn’t possibly shirk the responsibility I felt for my mother’s final wishes. But, my mom would be incensed if she knew how her careful preplanning all turned out and how much it cost us.
When my Mom passed, it was my Dad who paid for everything. My parents had a family plot where 5 generations were buried. When my Dad passed, it was his estate that paid for his funeral. Otherwise, I would have needed to pay being an only child.
I realize not everyone leaves an estate where money can be pulled for such cost. When that happens, either everyone chips in as much as they can... with cremation one doesn't need to purchase a plot or metal drawer, the ashes can be spread at Mom's favorite place. That's what I want for myself.
In a perfect world (LOL) there are assets/life insurance/prepaid burial plans to take care of these things. But (as we all know)life isn't perfect. When my friend's Mom passed there literally was less than $30 in assets. NONE of the kids had financial resources to pay for the funeral. So the funeral home took all 5 kid's credit cards, divided the bill by 5 and it all got charged equally.
Lesson here for all of us.
This presumes that Mom has a will. If she doesn’t, she needs to get one. Stat.
The sister who lives with Mom seems to have a queen bee complex. Can’t imagine where Sis got her idea about Mom’s adult children picking up the tab no matter what — or why Sis thinks that’s appropriate.
Cremation her costs $2300. Some cemeteries will allow an urn to be buried on a passed relatives plot. You pay to have the hole dug. If no viewing or service that is pretty much the cost. A lot of families have a Memorial service when an important date comes up. In my Mils case, it was their wedding anniversary. A nice luncheon was held by a friend.
If Mom has the money, then I agree, no reason she can't prepay her cremation.
You're talking about 7-8K per year that's been spent, correct?
Taking care of an elder can be expensive. Even something as simple as Depend garments can wipe out a well thought of budget. Eye glasses, and hearing aids are out of pocket expenses. Those are very expensive.
Special food items, such as Boost or Ensure is expensive. There are co-pays when it comes to doctor appointments, and believe me, elders have a lot of doctors, and co-pays on prescription medicine. New clothing as clothes do not last long with stains that are hard to get out. Plus changes in weight. Shoes are expensive.
Did your brother need to make changes to his house which would help Mom? Like putting up grab bars in the bathroom, put in a higher toilet, change the shower spray to a hand-held spray, and purchase a shower bench or chair? Did Mom need a lift-recliner? How about a rolling walker?
My own Dad had Agency caregivers, 3 shifts per day, and that was costing him $20k per month, yes per month, so having your brother be your Mom caregiver has saved the family a lot of money at this point. Then there is no telling what would happen later on. Mom might need extra care at home, or need to go onto Medicaid [which is different from Medicare] and be moved to a skilled nursing facility.
I assume Mom is still clear minded since your profile mentioned age related issues, then she can do what she wants with her money. It's not easy to direct a parent to talk about buying a grave plot or columbarium drawer.
You can contact the funeral home and ask about prepayment. I did this with my father because if he had needed a nursing home, they would not have left enough money to cover the final expenses. Thankfully it never came to that and 7 years later he passed on and everything was covered, exactly as planned.
As far as him being on your mom's bank account, etc. I don't really see where that is wrong, since she does live with him and I'm sure he has additional expenses due to this fact. However the fact that he doesn't want to share any of the financial information with anyone else would make me suspicious that he is taking funneling additional monies for personal gain, not all for mom's care, additional groceries and other household items, etc. If he's got nothing to hide, then he shouldn't have a problem being open about her accounts.
Just my opinion.
First, your sister who is your mom's estate executor has no more say in this matter than anyone else because an executor's authority and responsibility begins only after death.
Second, you said your mom has been living with your brother for three years and her savings has decreased by $23,000 -- that equates to about $640 per month, which doesn't seem like much to me. But I don't know your mom's income, which should be part of the equation. And I don't know the level of care your mom needs/gets from your brother (and his family?) or amenities she is provided (i.e. a small, shared bedroom or a large suite for herself). At a minimum, seems like room and board in your brother's home could be worth around $1,000 per month to your mom and that value increases as the level of her care increases, e.g. up to the $20,000 per month that freqflyer mentioned. Others have mentioned these things and I think your siblings and you should consider the wisdom gained in their experiences. Hope this is helpful.
Alas some do not. Either they do not care enough to do so, or they do not have the resources
If they do not, there is always the inexpensive choice of direct cremation in which the ashes are not buried in a grave site with a head stone.
You said: [[[[[[[ "Funny things are going on with my mother's depleting savings every month, which is handled by my brother with whom she lives, siblings feel the same, yet don 't proach the subject with my brother. For some reason he is co-owner with my Mom's banking accounts and will not share information with other's as to where Mom's money has gone in a matter of 3 years, like over $40,000 to now under $17,000. My older sister is the executor of my Mom's estate, but does nothing but grumble. Any thoughts, anyone?" ]]]]]]
That is definitely a lot of money to be disappearing. If she is kicking in some money from her SS check, it should NOT be costing your brother that much to take care of her.
At her age, medicare will pay for most things, with her SS check covering the rest.
The executor of the will has no say over a joint bank account. The joint account overrides the will. All that money is your brother's money, if your mother dies.
If your brother has convinced her to put money in a joint bank account, he can move money out whenever he wants, and when she dies it is his. It overrides the will and does not have to be probated.
If your brother needs to write checks, he can ask for signing privileges only for her bank account. This way when she dies the rest goes back into her estate to be shared as expressed in her will.
Again a joint bank account overrides the will.
A lot of caregivers take their parent into their home to get expense money from them and to gain "undue influence" influence over the parent by creating a state of dependency on them for the parent.
They do this under the guise of caring and concern, when they simply want help with their own expenses or an opportunity to take extra money from mom.
Can you hire an elder care attorney. Then ask all your siblings to meet with him so he can tell you the best way to handle her money.
If not, after your mother dies, you will be able to ask for an accounting of all the expenses your brothers claims he needed to take care of your mother.
Again, no matter what your brother says, He likely does not need to draw down her savings to care for her. She likely eats like a bird and medicare will cover most medical expenses. Her SS can likely cover the rest.
Your brother sounds as if he may be engaging in financial elder abuse because he is also isolating her.
You might also contact your area protective services for the elderly and ask for an investigation.
Undoubtedly "funny things" are going on with her finances. Of course it's not moral, but "money should not be in a person's heart." (partial quote by Jonathan Swift)
Regarding your initial question, if your mom doesn't want to pre-pay for specific funeral services, then her executor will be responsible for paying for them from what's left in her estate. If there's nothing left, IMO, whoever wants to make the arrangements will need to rely on the goodwill of the rest of you to chip in.
For that reason, if your brother hopes to get money from you for a funeral, he probably better start being friendlier to you, huh?
In my experiences with funeral homes, someone's going to promise to pay on a contract before any services are provided (other than maybe picking up the body). And the FH is probably going to want $ or a life insurance policy up front if they are suspicious that there are looming financial shortcomings.
Since your brother is joint on her account, he could write that check after her demise, assuming there's money left; but, since it will be his money then, he won't be legally obligated to use it for her funeral unless he signs the contract with the funeral home.
My sister & I went together to do mom's years ago & we still have her with us - we picked a lovely urn with butterflies on it, then a few days later when I was visiting she pointed out 2 different people wearing shirts with butterflies on them so we think we picked it right
Here the laws says the funeral directors get paid first before any other bills - I guess too many asked for lavish funerals then couldn't pay so now it is often done up front
My mom wanted be with my deceased dad (vet), so she chose a casket. We all wanted graveside services-simple. Since I had saved mom's income, she could pay the $3200 herself!