Trying to finish probate but have disputes? Father was taken advantage of.

Have you asked your lawyer about this situation?

The problem with claiming that he "was taken advantage of" is that it's not any seller's responsibility to verify that a buyer is "competent" to make the purchase or not when they sign contracts.

"...they are telling me that dad had two contracts for another device! He had one then upgraded to a new better model so they sent that to the debt collections to.

I was told by the debt collection that the other account should have been closed when he upgraded but this crap company left it open and was charging him for a device he didn't even have! and now it has been sent to the debt collection."

Do you not have a copy of those contracts? If not, they should provide you with copies. I would ask to see proof of those contracts. I think your only recourse is to find out whether they themselves broke the contract or not.

I agree something is fishy here and you may have to report them to the FTC, Federal Trade Commission. I would say that once Dad died, that all contract/s were null and void. If you have a lease that says nothing is owed if the person dies, I don't see how they can say otherwise. I get that with the price info you gave its only about $7500 that maybe owed deducting the two months Dad did pay.

Did they provide you with an upgraded contract? If not, they have to. Can they prove that a new device was shipped to Dad and he received it, meaning he signed for it or that he picked it up which would also be signed for? THEY need to supply proof.

So you have the original lease that says the contract is null and void at the time of death and hopefully paperwork showing u returned it. If that was the $130 device that is about 3k you don't owe.

Now the second contract. They need to prove there was one. Dad only had the device 2 months, when did he upgrade? This would be noted on a new contract. Because a new contract has to have been made up showing the new price. And that contract should read that it was null and void after death. If they can prove the item was shipped or picked up, the worst you should owe is the cost of the item. I really feel that by law Contracts are null and void upon death. Family is not responsible for a contract they did not sign.

I worked Collections for private companies. When a customer questioned a charge, he didn't have to prove the charge, I did. I had to pull the invoice, talk to the person who generated it and pull Proof of Deliveries. You are working with a private Collection agency that just has been given an amount owed. For now, ask them not to continue to call, better to do it in writing. I think you are probably working with Jerks at the store that have no idea how it all works. Ask them if there is a Corporate office or a main billing office. They are the ones you need to talk to. Tell the accting office that you have a contract and proof the item was returned so nothing is owed there per their contract. If the local store was not forthcoming with a new contract and proof of delivery, you tell the accting department that. Tell them without that information there is no proof your Dad authorized an upgrade.

Even if an acct is closed, the Bank should be able to retrieve past Statements. You only need the months Dad may have paid for the device. Did he put it on a credit card? His check book showing the check# and date paid. The bank should be able to supply canceled checks for those checks.

So the worst that could happen here is Dad owes the 2 months he had it and you have to pay for the upgraded device if they prove he received it. If they delivered it, then they need signed paperwork. It should show the new device being delivered and the old one taken back and Dads signature. Oh yeh, if there was a new device, is that the one you returned? Usually with an upgrade, the old one is returned in the same pkging the new one was sent in if mailed.

Again, the ball is in their park. If you want, run what I have said by a lawyer. I really think, though, if the company can't prove otherwise, you owe them nothing. That 10k is not going to effect your credit but Dads and he is gone. There also maybe something where the company has a certain timeline to prove their claim. If not done within that time, you owe nothing.

I have been researching but it all comes up disputing Credit Card debt. I did find this

"The collecting creditor only has five days from first contact to provide a debt validation letter. According to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, entities attempting to collect a debt must provide you with certain information."

So, you may want to get assertive. Go to the store with a copy of the lease highlighting that its null and void upon death. Which I actually think is a law. Show them proof you returned the item. And a copy of Dads death certificate. That means you owe nothing on the original lease.

Then ask that they provide a copy of the upgraded contract and proof of delivery for the upgraded item. That proof would be paperwork from PO showing it was received, a tracking# or a signed receipt. Seems they have 5 days to produce info to back up their claim. I would also request a statement showing billing amounts and payments made. Make sure they realize, by law, they have 5 days to respond. (May want to confirm this in your State)

I realize I may have overwhelmed you in my last post. I was writing as things popped into my head. As a Collector, if I could not prove a charge, it had to be written off. Keep telling yourself its THEM that have to prove. Looks like you can call the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau too. Since you have been dealing with this company for months, maybe that should be your call. They may just ask for the info you can provide and go from there. A government agency calling may change their way of thinking.

Please update us on how this works out. We learn from others.

Frank, you're missing something that really could be of help:  the Fair Debt Collections Practices act.

The statute:
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/rules/rulemaking-regulatory-reform-proceedings/fair-debt-collection-practices-act-text

Helpful guidance:
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/debt-collection-faqs

Please read either one, or both, before you do anything else.  

Some observations and suggestions:

1.  The contract was executed by your father, not you.   Your initial response should have cited the FDCPA and advised that the debt is not yours individually to address (you may have already done this) but an ALLEGED obligation of the Estate.   Also, if there are any outstanding funds due to this company, they're obligations of the Estate (my apologies if you've already stated this.)

2.   Under the FDCPA you had the right to demand copies of relevant data supporting their claim, again, on behalf of the Estate.    You also had the right to demand cessation of harassment.

3.  Since you have been engaging in contact with the debt collection agency, there might be an issue whether or not you've been construed to have waived rights of nonresponse.  This is an aspect with which I'm not familiar, but it would be that by willingly  responding, you've theoretically or inferentially waived the right to demand no further contact under the FDPCA.   I'd have to reread the statute though.  

There was a time when I had to challenge a bill sent to my father, and I invoked the FDCPA, and when the company continued I cited the noncontact invocation and advised I would take legal action against them if they continued to harass my father.   They did give up but I don't recall how long it took.

4.   At this point, I still would try the invocation (cease verbal contact and harassment), sent by certified mail, return receipt requested so that you have written documentation.  At this point, I would also suggest you advise both the company and the debt collector that you demand contact be written.

You might also advise that legal action against them would be considered if they continued to pursue their baseless claims.  But don't hint at what action you would take.  

When I worked for law firms during economic downturns, we NEVER outlined action, always leaving an open path for we might need to do.    Something like "any and all action necessary will be considered."   This leaves the situation open for hiring an attorney, refusing contact, filing a BBB complaint, etc.  (And in fact, I would get the BBB involved, if for nothing more than letting them know you mean business.)

5.   You wrote:

"I don't have any proof that dad does not have the other device or any bank statements to show he was taken advantage of as the bank account is closed."  

Shift the burden of proof on the "other device" to them, stating that you have no evidence the second device was sent and DEMAND documentation be provided by them, including delivery date, acknowledgment of receipt by your father, etc.

It's their assertion; burden of proof is on them, not you.

6.  As to the bank, they have records; use your authority as Personal Rep (f/k/a Executor) to ask for copies of the bank records of transactions with the company.

7.   Do not terminate Probate until this issue is resolved.   On the off chance that there are funds still due, you would end up paying them out of your own pocket.

8.  You also wrote:

"They tell me it is nothing they can do since it's financed through a credit company that i have to talk to them."

When you write your "no further verbal contact letter", demand documentation from the credit company.

Shifting the burden to the alleged original companies involved puts them on the spot, and should bring you some piece of mind.   If they do continue to contact you verbally, document it - date, time, messages left, but DO NOT speak with them.

Frank, another thought.  If the debt collector continues to harass you, try to find an attorney who handles defense of debt collection actions.  "Creditors' rights firms have debt collectors as clients, so you don't want to contact them.  

If might be worth it to get an attorney involved.   The attorney might demand compensation from the debt collector and the original company for your time expended.   If their case is flimsy, which it seems to be, THEY could end up paying you.

And, BTW, I would also file a complaint with the BBB against the local company.

Good luck!

I have not talked to a lawyer yet.

What the debt collection did was send a letter in the mail looking for the estate of my father which i control. You call them and they tell you who they are trying to collect a debt for.

So they are not harassing me.

I have one of the contracts.

"If someone dies owing a debt, does the debt go away when they die?

No, when someone dies owing a debt, the debt does not go away. Generally, the deceased person’s estate is responsible for paying any unpaid debts. The estate’s finances are handled by the personal representative, executor, or administrator. That person pays any debts from the money in the estate, not from their own money. "

Source:
https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/if-someone-dies-owing-a-debt-does-the-debt-go-away-when-they-die-en-1463

Also, do you have a receipt to prove you returned the equipment and when? The cable company forced me to pay for a modem I had returned but they lost in their system and I never asked for a receipt.