Will caregivers report us for rats at MIL's home?
Hi all, sorry for the loooong post, but It's been a while since I've asked any questions as everything is sort of floating along right now, though it's far from good and the ship is sinking. My FIL passed this March (2022) at 92+. MIL, the one with early/moderate dementia, as a widow, is living alone at 88. We've managed to get her to allow us to have a caregiver come in two days a week for 3 hours at a time. The lady takes her to the store, etc. since my husband disabled her car. We live about 130 miles away and we both work. She won’t move closer to us because when we retire next year and move closer to our son, she doesn’t want to have to move again and won’t go to a “cold” climate (Olympia, WA). She won’t wear a Life Alert and won’t use Alexa.
Her current house is 1,900 sq ft and too big for her. We have taken her on tours of Assisted Living places, which she thought were okay for “some day.” We even found one that will allow her to bring her large dog, who is a huge part of the problem. More on her later. She also says that since her budget is sort of balanced, she can stay put. (True enough, but it won’t stay that way as she needs more care.) We'd like to move her while it's not a panicked emergency.
We FINALLY got her to go to a primary doctor, who referred her to a neurologist as he didn’t feel he could accurately diagnose her. So my husband, 64 and her only child, took off and drove down to take her to see him on 10/31. Neurologist says she may have had a stroke because she’s weaker on the right side. MIL says it’s because she’s left-handed. Maybe so, but he wants an MRI. MIL couldn’t remember the 3 words even until he got out of the room so we thought we would at least be able to get a paper with a preliminary dx of dementia. Nope. He said first he would call my husband in a week with results of blood work, etc. He never called. We tried about 7 times to get ahold of him and left messages. Desk person says she will call back with info. We never hear from her either. So no diagnosis means we have no legal ground to make her do anything, as I understand it. We are trying to get a referral to a different dr and/or a gerontologist. We did finally get ahold of the neurologist at the end of last week and he said all her blood work is good and she doesn’t need ANY medication. My husband said he sounded annoyed to have to talk to him. No word on diagnosis because no MRI yet and still no referral.
Now, about the 70-pound neglected dog: The dog won’t use a doggie-door if there is a flap installed. FIL removed the door flap between the house and garage, and this gives rats the run of the place. I find evidence in the living room, on the dining room table, across the furniture, on the 2nd floor. They are in her pantry and run along the baseboards in the bedroom. The exterminator won’t come and deal with the rats because they can't keep the rats out with no dog flap. Traps haven’t worked. The caregiver reports that they are now eating bananas kept on the kitchen island. MIL won’t let her throw them out because, once she cuts off the chewed part. “It’s still good,” she says. Same with spoiled food in the fridge.
So are we likely to get called by APS if a caregiver reports her? That might be the best thing that could happen, but I really don’t know. Am I missing something here? She plays cards and watches TV all day long. I guess she’s happy. But we are thinking that the breaking point for this all might be when she falls or otherwise gets hurt and has to go into the hospital.
I know we don’t have NEARLY the problems most of you do, but I appreciate your time.
As for an AL move, finances will come in to play. If having a few hours of caregiving, with likelihood of increase in services, in the home is going to bring her 'budget' down to a more critical balance, she certainly will not be able to live long in a self pay AL facility. They are quite expensive. So she and the dog would be quite limited on how long they can live at AL.
Assuming dog exits house into a garage and goes to the bathroom in there, get an extermination/rodent company to come in to set traps. If garage attaches to house, the rats are coming in via holes around pipes or other exterior entrance. These can be sealed and traps set to catch what is already inside. If the dog exits house via open dog door, goes into a garage and then exits another open door to get to a yard, any wild animal could enter the house. And a burglar could also enter the house. -- She is either going to have to get up and let the dog out or lock/seal any exits from garage to yard to get rid of the rat problem and keep her home secure. So if dog is confined to garage to go to the bathroom, someone needs to be hired to clean that up, too.
Caregiver needs to keep old food cleared out of the icebox and toss any item found to have been chewed on by a rat. Remove all the food items from pantry that allow easy access for rodents/bugs. Store all those types of foods in the refrig. Only cans in the pantry.
I think I would throw a little more money toward her in home care so she can stay in the home as long as possible with the dog before I would spend a great deal of money per month for AL. A 70 lb dog may live 9-14 years with fairly decent care, food, and vetting when needed. If the dog is up in years, it may not play a role in her placement later on.
Yes, it will upset MIL. You are waiting on a DX that likely will never show itself. You don't need a DR to tell you that what you are seeing in MIL is wrong on many levels.
Worst case, the house may be condemned and she wouldn't be allowed to move back in.
Normal thinking people have a real aversion to cohabiting with rats. Just saying.
We lived by a field when my kids were growing up. B/C they would leave doors open all the time, we'd get mice now and then. I'd go into full 'Crazy Mom' on those critters. Traps, poison, whatever it took. Mice outdoors are adorable. Once they come in the house, they are the enemy.
My hunch is that you’ll be looking at more than a pantry’s worth of money and
time when you get that estimate. In any case, that’s what you tell Jeanne (as it is inevitable anyway).
There are no 'last chances' for your MIL. Pick her up bodily and put her in the car after you tell her the Board of Health condemned her house. That's what I would do if it were MY mother, even if she was as mad as a wet hen, who cares? Deal with that anger later, after the house has been made safe. Neither she nor her dog can or should be living in such a dangerous environment. Ask yourselves how you will feel if she's dead (God forbid) or hospitalized with rat bites or disease b/c nobody had the guts to do the right thing, for fear of angering her?
This advice comes from a place of caring about you and your MIL, her dog and your DH, who should get a full physical from his PCP once this crisis has passed.
I'm surprised that the caregiver is willing to be in a house with rats running around.
Anyway, your husband needs to do something immediately. Rehome the dog. Having the dog there under the current conditions is causing the rat problem. Seal up the doggie door. Get rid of the rats immediately.
Those three things will at least make your MIL and the caregiver safe from rat bites and rat droppings which are also very toxic and disease ridden.
All of that may buy you some time before you have to move her, but at 88 years old, it's getting close to time.
Take pictures and call 911 to request a welfare check and to appraise of
need of placement (the hospital's social worker should start the ball rolling).
I can't imagine who told you that the ability to write checks equals cognitive competency, it is simply false.
I had a Homecare client whose niece had to go for a guardianship when I, as the RN case mgr had to inform her that aunt was no longer safe at home. She told me that the week before, a guy selling frozen meats had sold her some $400.00 in frozen meats and the check was on a closed acct. Served that guy right to take such advantage, but it was one among several messes that required cleaning up. I testified in the court hearing on behalf of the niece so that the dear client could be placed in care and we stuck around with continued full services until she was moved.
Just the fact that she's living with rats is enough to have her deemed impaired and is a basis for further cognitive evaluation.
I don't envy all that you have on your hands with your MIL, but I have wondered if maybe what you had to tolerate in your own early years has contributed to delays in acting on this untenable situation.
I wish you the very best in resolving this and finally having your MIL placed in a safe and clean facility.
Or, better yet, get APS out there (call them yourself) and have MIL moved to assisted living or memory care ASAP. Caregiver can and should report the sitch to APS, however you can call them yourself, because as you said, it could be the best thing to happen.
MIL isn’t thinking right anymore. That should be clear to you. Did you explain her living sitch to the Dr? Either make clear to the Dr she cannot live as she’s doing now, and needs diagnosis to move her to assisted living. Ask him for diagnosis. I know he said she doesn’t need meds, but clearly he should have a diagnosis in her chart. Explain you need diagnosis to move her someplace safe.
We told the dr that there are rats running all over the house. He said, "Well, that's not good." But he still has us waiting for her MRI, which has to come after it's approved by her insurance, which has to come after his assistant returns, who was out last week. It's so frustrating. I guess if we were to tell him APS came in, that might do something.
Thinking back on what you've all said, I can definitely see we are enabling her and living in fear of her. My husband is sort of giving her enough rope to hang herself, which is super annoying to me, but he's told me more than once I'm a control freak. So I back down. Families develop these really unhealthy patterns, don't they. So she and the dog are left to suffer even though it's her choice.
Call ASAP: pet control or the agency that deals with pet neglect. This woman CANNOT have a dog. Period. You must call authorities. This is animal abuse.
The rats ... Do you want this woman bitten by a rat?
Do you know what happens to a person bitten by a rat?
Do you want this woman living in these conditions?
No No and No.
Read this . . .
Some mice and rats can carry harmful diseases, such as HPS, Leptospirosis, lymphocytic choriomeningitis, plague, and typhus. The best way to protect you and your family from these diseases is to keep mice and rats out of your home.
and ...
Early symptoms include fatigue, fever and muscle aches, especially in the large muscle groups—thighs, hips, back, and sometimes shoulders. These symptoms are universal. There may also be headaches, dizziness, chills, and abdominal problems, such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal pain.
Now, the last question, can I visit you in Olympia? It is such a beautiful area (although I haven't been there).
PLEASE. TAKE CONTROL OF THIS SITUATION.
Call the police dept if necessary. This woman should not be allowed to live under these conditions - no one should. Gena / touch matters
A good mouser is great in an older home because mice happen. But, we had a cat that was a good mouser, caught a couple that had found egress in the fall - and then she got bit on the nose and never so much as reacted to any scratching in the outside walls.
Rats are too big for cats. A Rat Terrier might help, but that's one more dog being neglected and nobody wants that. And the terrier might dig into the walls to get to the rats and cause even more damage.
The sole option here is to have the dog rehomed, the MIL placed in a facility, and the home repaired and cleaned.
"Can you get sick from rat droppings?
People get HPS when they breath in hantaviruses. This can happen when rodent urine and droppings that contain a hantavirus are stirred up into the air. People can also become infected when they touch mouse or rat urine, droppings, or nesting materials that contain the virus and then touch their eyes, nose, or mouth.
Diseases Directly Transmitted by Rats
Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome: This is a viral disease that is transmitted by the rice rat. This disease is spread in one of three ways: inhaling dust that is contaminated with rat urine or droppings, direct contact with rat feces or urine, and infrequently due to the bite of rat.
Leptospirosis: This is a bacterial disease that can be transmitted by coming into contact with infected water by swimming, wading or kayaking or by contaminated drinking water. Individuals may be at increased risk of Leptospirosis infections if they work outdoors or with animals.
Rat-bite Fever: This disease may be transmitted through a bite, scratch or contact with a dead rat.
Salmonellosis: Consuming food or water that is contaminated by rat feces bacteria can cause this disease.
Diseases Indirectly Transmitted by Rats
Plague: This disease is carried by rats and transmitted by fleas in the process of taking a blood meal. Domestic rats are the most common reservoir of plague.
Colorado Tick Fever: This is a viral disease that is transmitted by the bite of a tick that has taken a blood meal from a bushy-tailed woodrat.
Cutaneous Leishmaniasis: This disease is a parasite that is transmitted to a person by the bite of an infected sand fly that has fed on a wild woodrat."
He thinks YOUR reaction is 'over the top' while rats are chewing up his mother's home and leaving hazardous and poisonous droppings all over it?
Denial is not just a river in Egypt, apparently.
Track her down, or call the vet that last saw the dog, or ask for help. There are no-kill shelters that will take animals they feel that they can help/nurse back to health/rehome. Some dogs have health conditions (who knows what the rats have shared with the dog), and really are not going to have much quality of life. If dog cannot be rehomed, please be responsible and follow the guidance of the treating vet.
Tell MIL whatever you want to tell her as a reason for dog's absence. Just stick to the same story, dont get dragged into explanations or justifications. The dog does not deserve to suffer, as it has been doing for a while now.
MIL - call police for welfare check...they will get APS involved quickest and APS can often help make a plan for her safety (first) and her living situation (facility, likely assisted living). APS doesnt pay for all of those things, but can have a conservator appointed to manage MIL money, so that takes your husband off of the hot seat.
It will be tough going for a while, but if your son is the only adult child she has (or that is in contact with her) then he needs to step up and ask agencies for help in being sure she is in a place where she is safe and her needs are met. She will be angry,,,,,but if she is making such poor decisions now and lacks the judgement that having rats in your house is a very very unsanitary situation, then the time for independent living is over. And she doesnt see the dog's needs clearly, either. You and your husband dont have to take the dog or MIL to your home or pay for what she needs, but you do need to call in the experts who can help you manage these situations. Good luck.
problem.
As rats and mice move, they are constantly peeing and pooping. That's how they 'mark' their territory and send signals to other rats and mice. Once a house has been as marked up as your MIL's, the rats are reading this as an open bar! They will chew through anything to get in, knowing that the place is now 'theirs'.
It's gross and not remotely "OK" for this to go on.
Caregivers ABSOLUTELY can and should report this. Neighbors, family--the more calls the more attention to be paid to this untenable situation.
The rats are a big problem that you can see if you have a UV light. Or you can take my word for it. I have had rodents of all kinds as pets. I have also had a lot of experience with other animals. I also lived in a place that was very old and near a river, and we had our share of rodent visitors. I had cats that were great hunters but that doesn't solve the problem because the cats and dogs can get sick from the rats. So can people. Rats are known to carry things like hantavirus and even plague (yes, the Black Plague from the Middle Ages is alive and well out west in the US and several people and dogs get infected every year) so getting rid of the rodents is paramount. Rats can and do chew through wires in the walls and that can lead to fires. Rats can and will bite your MIL while she sleeps. Rats will spread urine as they walk (mostly the males but females as well) and they are very smart so they can evade a lot of capture attempts. With a UV light you can see these urine trails. They are on the bananas. They are in the dog's food if it is left on the floor. Call APS. They will go out and assess the situation and they will start a process that can be out of your hands, which it sounds like is for the best. You are the DIL and they don't listen to you. Your husband is afraid to take care of this situation and I can understand that, although he should stand up to her. That's likely a lifelong issue, however, the fact remains that you can't and he can't force an adult to do anything. If she is mentally ok according to professionals who assess her, it is her perogative to live in filth if she wants. You are aware of this if you grew up with hoarders.
So how about you give yourself permission to care compassionately for yourself and your MIL and even your husband and figure out a place to put the dog. Then call APS. Otherwise you may find MIL on the floor, dead or injured, being attacked by rats. It is frustrating and you have my sympathy. You are a caring person or you wouldn't even be writing about it to ask for help. Good luck and keep us updated.
There are food sources and that's why they are there. No resources, no vermin.
Get the sticky rat traps. That's what we did with my mom's house, get all food safely put away. Tin containers are required, rats and mice eat plastics and cardboard. Place those traps along the walls and both sides of the doggie door. She can just throw them away when she catches something and replace it. Outside of the house needs deterrents, we used moth balls and chlorine tablets placed across all the walls leading to the back door. Then I sprayed everything with 409, it is great at killing the scent trail these vermin leave.
My mom doesn't have any dementia, she just doesn't take care of things and lets food stay on the floor, leaves dog food down all the time and feeds the critters outside. All of which means easy resources for vermin and when the city did sewer work in her area the rats relocated and her house was an easy target.
My mom couldn't handle all of this alone. It feels overwhelming to get any kind of infestation, she needed our help and our ability to find solutions that worked. Your MIL needs that now. It is bigger then her abilities, you and hubby need to plan a week trip and help get this under control.
My mom had a flip out because I threw food away. I had to stop her from digging stuff out of the trash can. So be prepared to have a battle about perfectly fine items being thrown out.
Once we placed deterrents outside we were able to get all the critters that had moved in.
I don't know what the answer is for her actual condition but, she needs help clearing her house of this current emergency and your husband is it by default. He can speak with exterminators, search the web, do what we did or ???. But, he really needs to act now to help her.
Have the dog placed in a no-kill shelter and give the excuse that she ran off and can't be found after taking her out for a walk.
Your MIL is not able to make her own sound decisions and it's time for you to acknowledge that her living with a rat infestation requires her placement in a care setting. Period. The rats are not only exposing her to a host of parasites - both external and internal - and a host of diseases, along with the poor dog, they are also destroying her primary asset: the house and its contents.
As for the non-responsive Neuro: call the clinic system's patient support and demand that follow-up that seems to have been lost in the shuffle. Btw, if MIL isn't on an Advantage Plan, no referral is needed; she should be evaluated by an elder care team. You need medical documentation of her cognitive status and others types of Drs can provide that, not just Neurologists. You're accepting the delays of a run-around and you shouldn't.
Overall, you're being far too passive and must begin to take serious action for her sake and your own. Maybe try one final time to get her into a AL facility and if that fails, report her situation to APS, do so now.
You are enabling an elder with unsound reasoning skills to remain in an unsafe environment and the poor dog is suffering too. Take a long clear look at what you've described and act now to protect her from her own bad choices and get her placed; she's a vulnerable adult.
Once the dog is placed, get that exterminator in to save the value that remains in her home. This is untenable and should not go on for one more day.
And do you have the legals all tied up and everything in place for someone to take the reins? Do you trust fully that her care provider hasn't also brought her to an attorney and changed prior legal papers? One never knows.
Smell that toast? It's burning. I say all of this without apology because it's too far past any reasonable response from her family members, including you.
your husband is in denial and you’re concerned about company you have visiting?
Call APS NOW and get her out of there. I’m flabbergasted by your comments.
putting a dog in a locked cage in a garage with rats is an improvement???? No, it’s animal abuse.
You took her to look at ALs cuz you don’t want to end up in a “panicked emergency”. Dear Lord, your idea of what an emergency is should be checked.
Next time you meet a pest control officer ask for his/her best horror stories. Nice people ignore problems too, and the fact that your friends don't talk about it at dinner parties doesn't mean they've never found droppings on their swanky kitchen islands.
But I'm glad that Maryjann's MIL is being brought round to face up to the issue. May it be happily resolved.
Her problem-solving with regards to her incontinent animal seems inadequate.
I think that her ability to solve her living problems is demonstrably impaired and warrants intervention.
I would err on the side of calling in APS to determine which side of the line this falls on.
You say you are worried that if you report the rat infestation, Jeanne won't speak to you anymore and you'll have less "input" into her situation.
Do you HONESTLY believe that someone who would live with rats should be running their own life?
She needs to be protected from herself, like a 5 year old with a loaded gun.
She needs to be taken from that home and taken to someplace else to live with supervision and a legal guardian/conservator.
Will she know it's you who reported the rats? You could not report it and she might STILL blame you guys because she is no longer compis mentis.
It’s not a therapeutic fib to tell Jeanne that she goes to a senior hotel while the house is being evaluated and treated. I would seize upon this opportunity.
Then just follow up that you found a senior dog luxury spa for the duration. A fib, but it gets her separated from an animal that is a health hazard and frankly sounds like she’s suffering. Euthanasia is the moral choice for the dog and really for mil, even if you have to lie to mil about it.
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Did the doctor say she should not live alone?
YOU and DH have zero legal responsibility, so no, I can't see that YOU would be reported.
The FACT that MIL has an infestation of vermin and doesn't recognize that ita problem is an indication of her inability to manage her own living situation.
APS should be informed that she's a vulnerable adult. Let them visit and try to solve the problem.
I hope so.
The rats are not their fault. It's the legal duty of the caregiver who comes in a few hours a week to report on the rats.
The MIL's asinine stubbornness and refusal to 'allow' her place to be cleaned up or to relocate is HER problem. Not the problem of the OP (her DIL) or her son. They made her many offers to help. They have given her options. She refuses. So leave her to her spoiled hoarded food and vermin.
If APS calls her son because the caregiver reported, he should tell them the truth. The OP should too. That they both made several attempts to help the MIL but they are not social workers. If APS thinks placing her in a facility is what's best, then do it with their blessing.