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My husband, myself and our 3 kids live with my mother in law. We moved in in February of 2012, prior to my youngest being born. She had a new deed made in April of 2018 that is a survivor's deed between the three of us. She was diagnosed with dementia in 2021. We have kept her home with us. Her dementia is progressing fairly quickly and her mood swings and confusion is getting worse everyday. Her neurologist suggested memory care facility when I took her in the spring to see him. He has tried multiple medications to help the anxiety, depression and outbursts that come along with dementia, but we are getting to the point that the last option of medicine we can do at home is not working. We haven't been able to leave her alone in the last year and a half. My husband is currently staying home with her, which puts a strain on us financially because we are down to just my income. We can't go anywhere or do anything as a family unless we take her with us. Despite having to drive two vehicles for all of us to go, we are having more difficulties with her when we are on the outings, plus her outbursts and mood swings seem worse for a few days after an outing.
My husband is the youngest of 3 boys. He is the only one with children at home. We have no help from the siblings. They wouldn't even take care of their mother the last two years for us to be able to take a vacation from our home here in kentucky to go visit my dad for a week at his home in Florida. We can't even go out to eat anymore. It is putting a strain on my marriage.
I am her POA. I have always been the one to take care of her finances and her medical stuff. We are now looking at putting her in a nursing facility. We want to know if she goes to the nursing home will we potentially lose our home. On top of giving up our home to move in with her in 2012, and not being able to have any family time or even just a date night with my husband, we worry we will lose our home. Can anyone offer advice or help? Thank you so much in advance.

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Yes, I think that you may indeed lose your home to pay for your mother's care, unless she is independently wealthy without it. When your mother enters care her assets go to pay for her care. Her home can be kept and her car can be kept, but if she has not enough assets for her care and wishes to stay private pay she would have to sell her home. As you are not on the deed until her death you would have nothing to say about that.

She could keep her home and collect Medicaid when liquid assets run out, but you still would not get the home until Medicaid did recovery of invested finances via "clawback".

Your example here serves as warning that those who give up home and job to move in and give care often end up homeless, jobless and without a job history.

What SHOULD have been done all those years ago was a shared living contract in which you and mother attended an attorney to see how much you would pay to live with HER when she didn't need you and how much "shared living costs" monthly she would pay YOU when she did need you.

To find out exactly where things stand now I would attend a good elder law attorney with all your papers and deeds and the details of assets. You don't want to either divulge private info to strangers nor to count on strangers having the best advice for you. That I know of, none of us are attorneys and that's what you need now. It may be you are stuck in caregiving if you wish to inherit this home, and as there are other siblings I hope this thing is AIRTIGHT as they will want equal portions and may be willing to fight for them despite having done nothing to deserve them.

Good luck.
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Reply to AlvaDeer
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LostDIL Sep 24, 2024
Thank you so much. I am reaching out to a couple of attorneys tomorrow. The deed is a joint tenancy survivorship deed. We already own 2/3s of the home. One third my husbands and one third mine. She just retained ownership of 1/3 per the deed, which will be divided equally amongst my husband and myself upon her death. I appreciate you taking the time to answer. Thank you.
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If your MIL did this property deed back in 2018 it's older than the 5-year Medicaid lookback period. The shares that you and your husband own are Medicaid-exempt. The share that your MIL owns probably isn't.

You're not going to lose your home. One-third (your MIL's share) may have to be liquidated in cash and spent-down on her care in the nursing home. This means her equity in the home (1/3 its value) will have to be taken.

Of course, there are ways around this. If there is medical documentation that she has dementia and couldn't be left alone for the last 18 months for one day, you and your husband if you provided that 24-hour care have a right to charge her for it. Yes, you can bill her. It may even come out to more than what her 1/3 share of the property equals.

Go to a lawyer who specializes in elder law and estate planning. They will figure this out. It will be worth whatever you will have to pay them.

It's ridiculous that old people buy property and insist that their names be on the deeds or keep property in their names. I know why they do it because they see it as a kind of insurance policy. An insurance policy that will ensure their family keeps them out of a "home" if they want to inherit. It doesn't though. Usually a family will forgo any potential inheritance and place a LO if their needs become too much for them to handle at home. What a shame.
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Reply to BurntCaregiver
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Medicare is not in play here but Medicaid is and is run by each state, and somewhat differently.
My sister moved into my mom's home 12 years prior to going into a NH, paid by Medicaid. They do go after assets down to the state minimum but in her case a family member living in the home would be allowed to stay indefatigably.
And my sis wasn't on the deed, just mom.
My sister got advice from a elder care lawyer specializing in Medicare for our state.
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Reply to BluSky1
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You can always go to an elder attorney for a consult. I did this - cost an hour of his time I could ask as many questions as I wanted in one hour and he answered them. It was the best $400.00 I spent. Remember he will be knowledgeable in the laws for your state. Take a deep breath everything will be okay - great that you have found this site and know I have said a prayer for peace for you and your family. Hugs
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Reply to Ohwow323
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You need to consult an attorney that specializes in elder law. You will see how "attentive"the person at the nursing facility is. They will ask how much $$$ your MIL has in her bank account, what assets does she have. Don`t be fooled, they are figuring out how much they can expect to take from you. The people in the elder care industry are well rehearsed, scripts are memorized. I went thru all that with my father, right down to home hospice when he passed away.It`s been months and I am still getting bills from all types of medical "specialists." Some of the hospital bills are for treatment when he wasn`t in the hospital! When I ask for an explanation the person on the phone cancels the bill! It`s all about the money. Get a good elder law attorney, it`s a necessary evil.
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Reply to enricor
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What does a survivors deed mean? That she still owns it but you get it after death? If so, then Medicaid could potentially lien it, but that is a question for an elder care lawyer.
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BurntCaregiver Oct 5, 2024
@PeggySue

A survivor's deed or survivorship deed is when a property is co-owned with the stipulation that it passes over to the other owner(s) after the other owner's death and vice versa. The property does not have to be probated either if it's in survivorship.

The fact that the mother did this more than five years ago would be as you've said a question for a lawyer. It might be a Medicaid-protected asset and it might not be depending on the state they live in.
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I agree this is a question for an estate attorney or elder law attorney since the Medicaid rules can vary by state.
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Reply to Geaton777
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The idea is for MILs home to be sold to fund her care in Memory Care Assisted Living. If you apply for Medicaid to fund her care on the taxpayers dime, MERP will likely put a lien on her home to recover the costs of that care. It's unfortunate you did not see an Elder Care attorney before you moved in with MIL and took on such a huge task.
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Reply to lealonnie1
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To me this is more than a Medicare & Medicaid issue, it’s more an overall financial issue coupled with future healthcare cost concerns.

Re: prior to 2018 house owned by MIL and owned by her outright, correct? So no mortgage or HELOC or other lending using it as collateral, correct? The action to do this involved going to courthouse and submitting documents (hopefully done via a Warranty Deed but could have been a Quit Claim deed) so house is now titled and owned 1/3 each (MIL, your hubs & You). Was this done?
Does your & hubs drivers license history show you living at the home since 2018? Its your legal residence? No rent?
Does property tax bill have 3 names on it? Are property taxes broken down btwn MIL with her own exemptions and then you & hubs with your own exemptions? Does homeowners insurance also show each name on it?
OR was this more casual and no paperwork filed at courthouse??? So in the records its still her name only?
I'm asking because if this was done & filed at the courthouse in 2018 and the changes now reflected in tax & insurance bills etc., as it’s a full 5 years from 2018, MIL would be beyond any gifting of her home as an asset ineligiblity penalty placed by KY LTC Medicaid program (it is this program that pays for custodial care in a NH aka skilled nursing care facilities); and you live there without paying rent to MIL.

State still will ask for MIL financials to ensure 2K nonexempt assets and $2829 or less mo income ($ amount set by most States) and that btw 2019 to now no other gifting of assets by her. If you 3 all commingled how house bills are paid, payments will probably have to be segregated to show caseworker that MIL only paid her 1/3 share. Otherwise it can pose gifting & eligibilty issues.

for Estate Recovery, yes 2/3 is yours but 1/3 is hers, so should she go into a NH her 1/3 ownership would still have an attempt by the State to recover costs Medicaid paid for her care. Done via MERP or MERS and exemptions and exclusions to it. How to deal with it is realistically attorney work and as it’s an after death attempt, you need an attorney who is experienced in Medicaid Estate Recovery, KY property rights and probate laws as well. It can be dealt with imho. But this happens all after her death…...

The bigger issue - if your own finances are very narrow - would be IF you & hubs on y’all’s own can afford the home for possibly years.
Why? It is because the LTC Medicaid program requires MIL to basically give all her mo income (like her SSA $) as a copay or Share of Cost (SOC) paid to the NH. She will have no-zero-nada of her $ to pay a penny on that house she is still 1/3 owner of. All property costs from Day 1 LTC Medicaid filing till maybe a couple of years postdeath & MERP or probate dealt with, will be all on you to pay on a house that you do not yet own outright. If her SSA income right now is needed to keep the household afloat, her having to do a required SOC once in a NH will place you, your hubs in a financial crisis.

If an elder or their family, are all insistent on keeping the home while elderly owner is in a NH and on LTC Medicaid, it can be done. But the POA and potential heirs had better be able to pay all property costs with an emergency fund for an undetermined time with the risk that things may not work out as planned. Not everyone is comfortable with risk.
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Reply to igloo572
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LostDil, NO, you would not lose your home if you MIL goes into a facility on medicaid.

When you download the application from your local Department of Health and human services it will probably have a section about her being in need of a facility that was averted by her family moving in and keeping her out of the system (not those exact words) if it doesn't, ASK the social worker about that. Some states have criteria that allows a child to keep the house if they kept her out of a facility. They will not attempt MERP.

Even if your state doesn't have that program, you will not lose your house, the most the state can recover is 1/3 of the property value, but, this recovery doesn't force you out of your home, it would put a lien on the property that would need to be paid at the time of sale.

Hopefully igloo572 will chime in, she is the resident expert on how this all works.

God Bless your family for all you have done and do for your MIL. May you find a place that meets her needs and gives her great care.
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Reply to Isthisrealyreal
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LostDIL Sep 25, 2024
Thank you so much for your response! I appreciate your kind words.
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