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Needing some advice, on how to create a professional contract with a caregiver in addition to confronting some unprofessionalism on an otherwise good worker.


I see often on the forum that caregivers are difficult to find, so I’m torn with what I’m experiencing.


I hired a caregiver through an agency to assist with my younger brother who is disabled. My mom experienced a rapid onset of dementia early this year and some emergency hospital/rehab stays, which made this necessary.


My 2 other brothers and I are in our 30s and I am currently 9 months pregnant. None of us are truly in the stage of life to be handling this. I am POA, and I’ve had to take the brunt of everything for the last 9 months leaving little time prepare for my baby.


One brother lives in another state ( does nothing), and the other one does the bare minimum, often leaving things unfinished for me to handle, and still leeches off of my mom financially.


With some extensive hard work on my end , My disabled brother is set to go into a group home in a few weeks, it is the best option for him since my mom is quickly on the decline.


The caregiver reached out to me In early October and said that she would be interested in helping my mom as an independent contractor , once my brother moves.


Originally, This seemed like a godsend, because I have been handling all my mom‘s needs, and needed a plan in place for when the baby comes.


On the good side, the caregiver is kind to my mom and brother, she is upbeat, seems to be handling the tasks pretty well, and Keeps the schedule fine.


She also has a lot of experience, and I noticed a lift in their mood since she started working with them.


However, over time, I’ve noticed this caregiver overstepping and crossing some boundaries with me.


She’s recently made comments on how “bored” my brother and mom are and expresses how “bad she feels for them” when I’m barely hanging on with their extreme needs, putting my whole life aside ,and getting nothing done for myself. Currently, they live in a huge house, have people cooking, cleaning, waiting on them, and don’t have to worry about a thing despite their health.


She’ll talk openly about how “messy” my mom is ( nothing knew and part of her job to clean), and talks ( in front of her ) about how she’s like a “cute little child”. This is hard because my mom was a fully functioning person in February. On top of everything I am grieving the rapid loss of my mom as I’m becoming a mom.


Yesterday, as I am picking my mom up for and errand after a stressful three hour appointment with her financial advisor, The caregiver proceeds to tell me how my younger (disabled) brother ( who I have done everything in my power to help, when no one else would) and my older brother refer to me as a “Hiltler”. Then in the same breath, she proceeded to ask me how much weight I’ve gained in my pregnancy.


???


I calmly brushed off the comments but they were infuriating.


Backstory- my relationships w/ my brothers have never been solid. They are entitled, dependent, and treated my mom like a servant until she started experiencing issues.


They tend to bite the hand that feeds them, and are unthankful. God for bid, any female stands up to them for anything, and they’re called a “b!tch”.


I already know who they are and how they feel about me. However, because of the toll this ordeal has taken on me personally, I was hurt and infuriated . I have done everything. In addition to that no one in my family even acknowledges that I’m this pregnant and I’m simply not able to keep the pace up anymore. I’m actually supposed to be quarantining right now but instead I’m tying up loose ends so my family is safe.


The caregiver is not the cause of my family dynamic, however I feel her comments are out of bounds, unwarranted, and very insensitive.


The problem is not her work, but her meddling in my already dysfunctional family.


Need advice , can’t lose her this late in my pregnancy.


Also a resource on creating a professional contract

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Don't hire this person as a contractor. Keep her through the agency. You would need an elder law attorney to prepare the contract. She then becomes an employee of mom with taxes etc being withheld, mom responsible for her share.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Actually, this is an extremely good point.
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You can hire them as an independent contractor and they’re responsible for their own taxes.
she also is 16 hours a week and not full-time.
I know this because I’m an independent contractor for my profession.
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Stacy0122 Nov 2020
The IRS and Department of Labor has defined caregivers as W2 household employees not independent contractors.

If you have issues with unprofessionalism, you need to address her employer, the agency, instead of doing it yourself.
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you state she does a really good job taking care of them— what’s the unprofessional part? Her job is caregiving and you said she does a really good job and your aware that’s not easy to find. It sounds like the part you don’t like is that she told you your younger brother who is a disabled adult expressed to her you act like a “hitler” to him, this may have caused her some concern understanding hes disabled- did you discuss it with her or brush off her concerns? It sounds as if she’s doing a good job caregiving as you yourself stated, it is hard to find good reliable long term trustworthy caregivers and you need to be realistic that they are just people they’re not perfect but also understand if they see or hear something concerning such as a disabled adult feeling like he’s pushed around, not physically but he described you to her as treating him as a hitler” any responsible person would want to know more about what is transpiring that causes him to feel this way) If a disabled adult told you their sibling treated them this way, would you wonder or be a little concerned? I’m just trying to help you see from her side how it would be, since you said she’s a good person and takes good care of them and are wanting to give it a fair chance
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Currently all his needs are met. I spend hours on the phone with social workers, car providers, lawyers, doctors arranging his future. Occassionally have to tell him not to speak unkindly as he us a biy entitled. Being 9 months pregnant, I can’t make trips to take him on outings, take him To do fun things which means he can call me names. The down fall of the family dynamic Is that the females ( myself/ or mom) are not treated with respect when we have to stand up for ourselves.
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If you like the job she's doing with your mom and brother, and it's only a few comments that she's made that bothers you, since you are her employer, then address these things with her. There's a nice way to do that. But also make sure you are telling her how much you do appreciate the good things she does, because like you said, a good hired caregiver is hard to come by.

I also can't help but wonder if the fact that you are pregnant, maybe is making you a bit more sensitive about these things than you normally would be. Just a thought.

Please take care of yourself and your unborn baby. God bless you.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
hmmm, handling The whole burden on my own for 8 months with out support has more to do with sensitivity.
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" I’m actually supposed to be quarantining right now but instead I’m tying up loose ends so my family is safe."

This to me says it all. You are jeopardizing your own health and that of your baby.

I will suggest resigning your POA, and if you do anything further for your mother, demand payment. Let one of your brothers become the POA. Maybe the one who is out of state? My out-of-state brothers were out of state for my mother, and it worked out pretty well. (But they are trustworthy...is the brother who does nothing?)

Remember, your mother raised these boys to be the way they are. So let one of them take care of her needs. Please concentrate on yourself and your family. I don't know how much money she has, but I hope you are making sure she isn't doing anything with her money (the brother who is mooching money off her?) so that she can't become eligible for Medicaid down the road.

I don't want to see you down the road as one of the martyrs who is taking care of Mama 24/7/365, and harming your own family.
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gladimhere Nov 2020
Tying up loose ends when to be in quarantine is jeopardizing the health of the family, including that unborn baby.
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I think that it is harder to maintain that professional detachment when you have the kind of arrangement where the hired caregiver becomes a more singularly relied upon de facto member of the family, the more she is involved in the family dynamics the more enmeshed she becomes. I think that the best way to staving off her overly entitled feelings of belonging would be to bring in other caregivers in order to decrease your reliance on her, this would also serve to remind her that she is a (replaceable) employee and not a family confidant.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
That is a very good point. Thank you
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I think the veiled criticisms of your mom and brother's care "I feel bad for them. They are so bored." and the treating your mom like a child are not boundary issues. They are issues that indicate she needs more training as a caregiver. A good caregiver would feel responsibility for the activities of their charges and think of things for them to do. A well trained caregiver would know not to treat the client like a child.

But the repeating what your brothers say about you is a definite red line. I had a cousin that just loved to stir the pot. "Your sister says no one in the family really likes your husband." The second time she did that I stopped what I was doing and dialed my phone and said "Sister, cousin says you said this. Well, I don't know why she would make that up, do you? Would you like to speak with her? No? Ok I'll tell her." Then I told her my sister said she lied.

Her face! hahah. She never did it again- at least not to me. (and I didn't call the sister she was ratting out. I have a lot of sisters! haha)

I'd tell her in a cold voice that you never want to hear her repeat gossip from your family again. But you don't need the stress of looking for a new caregiver right now. I hope everything works out for you and calms down soon.

Congratulations on the baby!
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She is good with the people she cares for. That is important. However, she is OVERSTEPPING with YOU in a HUGE way, and that isn't OK.
You need to sit her down at once. You need to show her what you wrote here or show her a list of what is here, and you need to tell her that she is suffering from a loss of boundaries. That what she is doing is NOT OK and must NOT continue PERIOD. Say this in a kind man but say it strong and clear.
A) the Hitler comment. Absolutely inappropriate. It is driving a wedge. IF it was said she needed to tell them that it is inappropriate to say in her presence, and then she needs NOT to repeat it to you. She is being divisive in a struggling family.
B) You Mom is an elder worthy of at the LEAST the respect not to be referred to as a little child in the presence of her daughter.
C) She is not your friend. Discussion of your pregnancy is not on her plate. Weight or anything ELSE about it.
I could go on, but you got it. NOW I will suggest to you that you may have come to treat her with more familiarity than she can handle. This may have caused her to think she is more a "family member" here. She isn't. She works there and apparently does a FINE job and you already said how much you value that job.
Like you, I am torn. Frankly I am angry on your behalf. But I would want the excellent and loving care she can give.
Talk to her and make sure she understands it. Start to take a VERY PROFESSIONAL (only) manner with her. Apparently anything else muddies the waters for her.
I wish you good luck.How sad you are having to choose between an excellent worker who doesn't respect her position and an unknown whose care you cannot bank on at this trying time.
I couldn't wish you more luck.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
True, I definitely see her as someone who gets comfortable really quickly.
She told me TMI around her own life too. I try to keep our conversations on track, in a polite way, And politely trying to brush off some of the odd “Trouble making” comments. I felt they’re increasingly getting out of wine so I am searching for advice about it. I felt they’re increasingly getting out of line so I am searching for advice about it her recent comments of made me realize she needs it spelled out, or put as an actual rule.
“Muddying” The waters is a really good way to put it, and it makes sense that someone may not know how to be one or the other.
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Congratulations on the newest member of your family! I know you would much rather spend time getting ready for your baby than handling difficult family matters. However, handling this matter now will help you in the long run.

It appears that the majority of your concerns are with what the caregiver says to you. She has lost objectivity and drifted into sharing gossip or "opinions." It can happen when a person develops closer relationships and forgets that this is a professional relationship and not a "friendship."

Ask the agency about the caregiver's qualifications to handle your mother's medical problems before you talk to the current caregiver. If she is not qualified, talk with her agency about finding a person to care for mom and let the caregiver know when her services will no longer be needed. If she is qualified, you will need to have a meeting to address staying on to help your mother.

Write a letter of memorandum and cite specific conversations you have had and/or comments that have been distressing. Make an appointment to sit down with the caretaker to discuss her transition from caring from brother to caring for your mother. Let her know that you expect her to keep her "opinions" to herself but that you would appreciate her input regarding your mother's needs. Tell her that she will be on probation for _______ weeks. If you do not see improvement, you will forward the letter to her employer and ask for a replacement caregiver. Always, always, always end on a positive not - that you value her care for your brother and really look forward to having her care for your mom.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Yes, I think you’re totally correct.
I love the professional opinions Regarding my mom’s actual care, and I’m always open to them. And I’ve done quite a bit encouraging her when she comes up with a good idea or some thing I may have overlooked such as a possible trip hazard. I think in the recent weeks is when I started to see more unprofessional meddling and opinions “ Seemingly” siding with my brothers outrageous behavior.
I didn’t know what to do, and talk to this forum to see if people had advice about handling it.
This is really good advice, I should probably just go through the agency for this. She supposed to contract independently for my mom, but she still employed through the agency because my brother has not moved out yet. Thank you.
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A professional contract is not going to solve the problem you have but it is still necessary. Look for a boilerplate on the internet, copy it’s form and basic substance, and then add a section called “Special Provisions/Services” to add or amplify the things that are particularly important to you. See care.com for example.

Secondly, your caregiver’s remarks sound like statements that you are interpreting as criticism of yourself. Your caregiver has a big mouth but she’s also involved enough with your mother and brother to have an opinion. If she told you that your nickname is Hitler, she’s either trying to ally herself with you and is stupid enough to repeat what your mother and brother (or absent brothers) have told her, likes to sow divisions (in which case you will have to fire her eventually) or she is telling you that she shares their view of how you manage things. She may also be trying to constantly keep you off balance in order to gain control of your mother’s household or saying thing’s she believes your mother snd brother would say if they had the courage. It could also be possible that the two of you are more alike than you’d care to admit.

You have already committed to keeping her because you need her and whatever she is doing is making the household more upbeat, so I suggest that, whenever she makes one of her remarks, say, “What would you do about it if you were me,” and see what she says. If you like her answer, tell her to go ahead and try it and if you don’t, tell her why you don’t like it and what she is to do instead. It won’t be long before your caregiver knows who’s boss and starts showing you more respect, but she will also feel included in helping to make care decisions. In the meantime, you might need to ask yourself whether you are regularly overly bossy, entitled or rushed, and if you are, try not to be as dictatorial as I suspect you might be. Your absent brothers’ sexism may be exacerbated your own feminism coupled with jealousy about your superior financial resources, successful partnership with a capable spouse or your own professional success and earned income. Coming from a family of sexist men myself, I can tell you these “boys” will never change snd it isn’t worth your while to worry about because they may continue to belittle and criticize you until the end of days. You can probably thank your father for that even though you may have been your father’s favorite and are much smarter and more in control of your own life than your mother or any of your siblings. Male siblings typically have a very hard time psychologically with a sister who is a lot smarter, more decisive, wealthier, more competent, and/or professionally successful than they are but they will still expect you to take charge of any task or event they can’t cope with. They may spend a lifetime waiting for you to fall or fail. They really aren’t worth worrying about and I think you know it.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
coming from a sexistfamily, seems like you understand how there’s definitely a no-win scenario no matter what.
Correction, my mom has not joined in on the name-calling. my mom has been very thankful for everything I’ve done . My brothers tend to take advantage Of my mom, and if you have to put them in their place for causing additional problems such as my older brother getting upset at me because I had to stop payments my mom was making for all of his bills ($500 each month- He’s 39 years old). He also got upset at me because I told him not to take cash out of the stash that was left for the caregiver to help with my brothers expenses . It’s pretty complex, so basically I’ve had to stop some bad behavior where my brother has been taking advantage of my mom, And undoing things that I’ve had to do to help her, and also not helping with the little tasks that are assigned to him . Also, being pregnant I can’t be in 2 places at once so if I ask my brother for help such as filling my younger brothers medication and he decides he doesn’t want to do that, I have to drive 45 minutes to go do that for him so he doesn’t have a seizure . That can be difficult when I have to have three hour meetings with financial advisors and spent hours on the phone trying to fix some issues my mom had with her bills because she stopped paying them. Also being on the phone with doctors trying to explain all of her symptoms, and be at the hospital throughout all the emergencies means I need an extra hand and I can’t do it all. I also run my own business, and my older brother is an Uber driver.

so no, the caregiver does not have enough of an opinion because she works 16 hours a week, and it’s only been for about two months.
she was somewhat of an emergency placement, so she has no idea of the background of this family. I see her comments more is stirring the pot And taking everything at face value when she sees me running around nine months pregnant handling everything . I’m there multiple times a week. It’s possible she needs a little more background on this family, however she shouldn’t be saying things like that anyways. I try to look at people as genuinely good, but I don’t understand the motive but your perspective is interesting.

my mom was treated like a slave by my father and then my brothers started treating her that way too.

My younger brother, is a completely different set of needs that I had to take on. Working with the state of Illinois to get proper funding so that my brother has a security feature has also been on top of this. Talking to people to state is not easy. All this is simply to make sure that nothing happens to him if my mom declines further because she stopped taking care of him. It’s been hard to make him understand how much energy goes into that and the reason everything is shut down for Covid. This makes him angry, however a lot of things make him angry.
so if you’re wondering if my disabled brother quote “has the courage“ he has more than enough courage to call someone a name when he doesn’t get his way. before me he was calling my 74-year-old mother names because she couldn’t drive him all over the place with Covid shut down. I should mention he’s developmentally disabled. He’s easily influenced by people around him.
my husband and I worked with him for a few months to understand how it’s not OK to call people helping you names. it seemed to be working
So there’s definitely more to the story.
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Always search this site for information you are seeking.

Contracts?

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/personal-care-agreements-compensate-family-caregivers-181562.htm
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Thank you for this. I spoke with her elderly law attorney yesterday, and they said that because of how short term it is it should be fine. It would be around three months at most because being the one handling everything, I really truly have to go have a baby.
In addition to that my mom has a long-term care policy that we are waiting on to get details and if that were the case we would definitely go through the agency. This is a new development.
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Mare sure whst she says is really what is bothering you and not that you are really strained and over burdened and your hormones are making you take what she says worse than you would normally.

Right now, you need her and it sounds like she's pretty good other than a few comments.

I would start off any contract on a Trial Basis with her to see if it works out like 3 or 6 months, where you are able at any time to give her a 30 or 60 day notice that things aren't working out.

Right now, you should have a talk with her letting her know all the things you like about her, then talk about things that upset you and ask her to tell you what concerns she may have and then get feed back from her and ya'll decide if there's a common ground and see if ya'll can both live with it.

Bur, take note that Caregivers, especially Live In's do sort of become part of the family.

But, your talk to openly lay out what is expected and acceptable prior to any Contract. Would be a good start
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
I spoke with the lawyer yesterday and she said a short term would be fine without a contract.

It is how she’s saying it. Being pregnant doesn’t make you completely irrational about everything ( just in case you were wondering ). I actually am not able to fit in the other times she has meddled or said something semi-offensive. It’s actually been increasing recently. I had fit in how my brothers are to work with and how they’re not very supportive.
Commonsense says that anyone working for someone else shouldn’t be speaking that way to the person paying them. You should not be meddling in personal family affairs.

I’ll definitely be having a chat with her. My husband decided he would like to be there as well backing me.
he understands my family dynamic, and knows how much work it requires to get my brother to cooperate or do anything. he’s also in the eye witness as to how much my brothers still take advantage of my mom even though she’s in her condition. Causing problems in a family crisis like this has made the stress levels skyrocket. In the end I’m just trying to find relief so I can go have a baby in 3 weeks. So tensions, are naturally going to be high because I don’t want anything to happen to my mom or brother while I’m giving birth.
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The majority of caregivers I had through Council on Aging were excellent. The same for home health caregivers.

There were a couple of issues that I discussed with the agency, not the caregiver. Let the agency address your concerns.

Best wishes to you with your new baby and sorting this out.
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She has overstepped a number of lines. So first of all - like you need telling! - I just wanted to assure you that you are not overreacting or being too sensitive.

I see you also recognise, quite rightly, that she did not create the difficulties with your sniper-brothers.

A person who is a good personality match for a young adult is not necessarily going to glide into the role of caregiver in a household where it's you and your older-adult mother (+ new baby). When your brother moves into his new home it might be a good opportunity just to let her contract come to a natural end.

If, on the other hand, you think you would struggle to find anyone better for your mother, then it will be necessary to have conversations about ground rules, expectations and - granted, she's not wrong about enrichment and stimulation, in due course - your mother's care plan looking ahead.

However. There is one immediate thing. It is not acceptable for your employee to discuss your personal life with anyone; and in terms of basic good manners it's not really okay to ask anyone deeply personal questions about their pregnancy.

Mind you, on the first half of that - she didn't, really, did she. She was just reporting back information she thought you ought to know. You did right to brush it off. Did she tell you how she herself had responded to these disparaging remarks about you?
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
I don’t live with them, so it’s really important for me to feel like I can trust the person. I trust she won’t put them in danger, but I’m worrying if she’s going to create problems additional problems in the family dynamic!
This is actually the third time she’s brought up to me some of the nasty things my brothers have said.
she “claimed” she told him she didn’t want to be involved.
I tried to help her by telling my brother to not talk about personal things regarding family with her, Because she’s there to take care of my and mom only. I did this to try to support her, because I felt like it was some thing I should try to mitigate.
I feel like she keeps bringing it up, and it makes me really wonder what her deal is.
this time, she did it while I was walking out the door trying to get my mom to an appointment. she did it in a very loud manner and was loudly laughing at it as if it’s some kind of joke, when the last two times she brought it up it clearly wasn’t a joke. So the thought I had was “I thought we went over this” and it was done in a way that seems like it was she was trying to get a rise out of me. But I really don’t know for sure. I can just tell when someone’s being harmless, and unintentional versus possibly an ulterior motive. It was a big red flag when I thought the situation was set. I got worried, so I took to this forum because again, I’m so close to having my baby.

I’m so sorry, it’s so hard to paint a picture in writing but I appreciate you asking more questions.
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Tholden627

Sounds like your plate is full. I also had to start caregiving at a young age with my own young family and it's a difficult place to be. Sibling dynamics can be difficult.

1) Do you have POA for your MOM? I noticed you had it for your brother. If your Mom has already started with Dementia but still has most of her senses, THIS is the time to discuss POA. Explain to your Mom that although you love her and your special needs brother and want to help, you can not do it unless you have complete control on decisions due to the strained relationship with your brothers. Tell her it will be her decision and if she can't agree to that, then I would tell her that all POA's will need to be transferred to another sibling and they will have to handle everything. Sometimes, this is the only alternative with siblings who don't want or can't help and be part of the solution.
It seems harsh but in the end, sometimes this is the best thing to do. Joint caregiving only works with siblings who are close and will work with each other to do what's best for the patients.
2)Talk to agency right away about the unprofessionalism of the caregiver you hired. If it does not improve immediately, tell them to send another person ASAP! If she stays, have a sit down meeting with your husband or another third party and be very specific about the caregiver role and her responsibilities. If there are questions or she fights back, then replace them immediately. I've known and heard multiple stories of caregivers coming in and talking the patient into changing financial papers, etc and also just sowing discord. When you set guidelines, include that although your Mom or brother may make comments about you or the other siblings, they are to remain professional and change the subject and that although they may have a different approach to caregiving these are your rules. You appreciate the help, however, they are a hired employee and strict relationship rules will be followed. No personal comments or intrusions will be tolerated.
3)Enjoy your role in Motherhood. It will be difficult with the added burden of caregiving, but you will never get this time back. If necessary place all bills and finances off to the side for a 6 week period to bond with your baby. When a creditor or Finance person calls about your Mom or Brother, if it's not life threatening then put it off for awhile. I've had to deal with tons of Financial issues with my grandparents and my Mom, they will still be there when you get back to them. You will not be held financially responsible for their bills.

Hope this helps.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Such great advice on communicating with the caregiver and if that doesn’t work, I definitely need to go through the agency.
I appreciate the fair warning on caregivers sometimes coming in and messing with the family or finances of the individual. I think I do need to do a sweep to make sure all important documents are out of there and at my house. I wish I had more time to make this plan more solid.
Thank you.
I am POA Medical and financial for my mom and brother. My mom set all of that up in 2016 The more I uncover the more I saw she truly planned things out, before she started to decline the last year . I’ve spent months getting that in order so I Could access accounts to pay her bills ( she lost track for 6 month with out Me knowing) And took me months to fix. Found a great financial advisor and elderly law attorney so her funds are properly used for care and living. The special needs lawyer Help me get proper trusts for my younger brother, and made sure I was doing everything I need to do to get his funding approved.
Last step is putting everything on automatic bill pay. The financial part was so hard, but I knew if I didn’t do something she could’ve been kicked out of her house. She lost her job in February and forgot to file the proper paperwork for her Social Security so she had no funds. Took forever to figure that all out but finally did.
The problem is I’m mainly experiencing are my brothers attitude, and now the strange behavior the caregiver, and I really don’t want to be worrying about that right now.
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Tholden, I so feel for you. I overheard myself being referred to as "the tissue Nazi" - that one occasion was a joke, though, and I wasn't offended at all - but was far more angry and upset when I realised my dear brother was making "yada yada yada" faces behind my back to my mother when I was explaining to her that she was in hospital because she had been abusing NSAIDs, given herself a bleeding gastric ulcer, and lied through her teeth about it for nearly a week. It's hardly an exaggeration to say that mother owed her life to an unusually alert and conscientious GP who noticed mother had missed an appointment and decided to call in on her way home. What if the GP had happened to live in the opposite direction?

For which personal reason, I think if I were you I might be more concerned about what your brothers are saying to your mother. If it undermines you, it undermines her care. Far more of an issue.

You can't have a good working relationship with someone who, seriously now, tries to get a rise out of you. I think you will have to thrash this out with her, and I think it's a very good idea to have an "observer" with you. But approach the discussion with the aim of retaining her so that you keep it positive, more about what you do expect than about what's gone before.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Luckily, my relationship with my mom is pretty solid she’s a wonderful person. many of the issues experience with my brothers is because I’m trying to protect her.
I attribute so much of what I’ve learned to her.
but I should always be on the lookout because I don’t know how dementia is going to affect her mentally.
I’ve always been her only ally, even though she has been an enabler for my brothers.
but your story sounds super intense. It’s amazing how the person who has to make all the hard decisions received the most critiscm or is label the “bad guy” whenever you one else around you gets to live there life.
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So sorry you are going through this at what is supposed to be a happy time, being pregnant. It is sad that your Mom has had such a rapid decline. 💞❤️️💞

Each time the caregiver says something like that to you, say this:

"You would be surprised what they say about you, but it would be cruel to tell you".

"I promise, when my family says those things about you, I will keep it confidential, and not spread gossip that might hurt your feelings."

Maybe you can find a caregiver who has not lost her filter at a later time.

It is up to you how far you will allow this to go. Unfortunately, her behavior is an indication of more under the surface. Not sure, but her words come under the term 'gossip'. If you correct her, she may not tell you anymore, but will still be a gossip.

Boundaries up new Mom. You can create more of a professional distance.
Maybe other caregivers can tell you how.

As for hiring her away from the agency, maybe not a good plan. You have the recourse to ask for a different caregiver, and the option to tell the agency about her being indiscreet with her words. (gossip), and let them handle it. If you hire her away, and have a contract, you will feel guilty later letting her go. You may get stuck with her.

You have options. You are the boss. Tell her you have reconsidered hiring her away from the agency due to legal requirements, and want to leave things as they are, with her continuing with the agency.

Then, ask the agency to send a second caregiver, making it two shifts or every other day, on a schedule you have designed. This will also serve to limit Caregiver #1's hours, and hopefully, limiting the damages possible.

There were some red flags: 1) She is unhappy working for the agency.
2) She set requirements on you: that she will work for only your Mom, not your disabled brother.
I feel a takeover could be on the horizon. Dysfunctional families are often targets of takeovers. imo.

Be careful. You do need to relax during your pregnancy. Your weight gain is beyond her purview, as you have already said, and I agree, it is unprofessional.
Stop sharing your own personal stuff with her maybe.

Hope you can take some time to put your feet up soon.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
My younger brother is going into a group home ( currently waiting on the award letter from the state ) so she won’t be working for my younger brother anymore. But that’s only because he’s moving out and not because she saying she won’t do it.
She was originally hired for my brother through the agency.
The side plan for my mom came about because she offered and with my baby due at the end of November, I needed to have someone there for my mom Because I was the one doing everything for her. At the time I was really liking how she was treating my mom and brother. She also is certified and used to have her own business and started working for an agency because she claims she got tired of running a business and some of her longtime clients went into nursing homes or passed away in the last year.
Either way, I think you’re incredibly right about the dysfunction of a family being a target. Also my mom lives in a really nice neighborhood with a big house, so I think something about that could be appealing.
Strictly professional needs to be communicated ASAP or else I probably have to figure something out. I don’t tell her too much information, my older brother / younger is more likely to take the opportunity to vent and tell extremely personal information. my mom is nonverbal right now.
I don’t seek her out for any sound boarding, but occasionally she is there and witnessing something very stressful.
I just wish I had more time to figure this out because this seemed to come out super suddenly.
I did talk to my moms elderly law attorney, and she said no contract for a few months is fine.
Either way I’m totally rethinking the situation now.
thanks for pointing some things out I maybe wasn’t thinking of.
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THolden, it sounds like you have a good plan, well done!

One thing that I would caution, dementia changes our loved one in ways we could have never imagined. Please do not depend on what the past relationship has been in determining what will be. It is possible that your mom could turn on you because her brain is broken and it is no longer the mom that you know and love. I am sorry that you are losing her to this damnable disease.

Congratulations on your upcoming birth! Such a marvelous time for you and your husband, may God grant you peace with your family situation and give you an easy birth. May you have much joy with your new family member.
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Something I just thought of, check the contract with the agency often there is a stipulation that if you hire them away from the agency you will pay them a "finders fee". In my mom's case that was $10,000. No we did not do that.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Good to know. I will double check that. We never signed a contract With the agency - its through Medicaid for ‘Community and homebased services” For my brother.
Very useful info regardless.
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From the sounds of it care for mom would not be Medicaid.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Yep,Correct. She is Medicare, would not qualify for medicaid yet.
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Fire her. I had a good care taker who started to control the information flow. I confronted her and fired her. I ma now doing interviews to find a new person.
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I assume the care giver is NOT a live in? Introducing a written agreement AFTER they have started doing the work can be a very difficult thing to do. Your going to put conditions in writing that are different than how it is currently being done, that can be a cause of hard feelings. After the caregiver gets the written agreement do not be suprised if she walks.
I assume you have a husband? How helpful is he? It is critical you have his full support. You have a new baby coming two family members that you are helping and an employee (caregiver) to deal with. I hope you do not have a job too? You have really got a load here and he needs to clearly understand and support this. If he does not I urge you to find someone else to handle your family members and that may include turning over POA. This could be a 20 year commitment. If your husband is not fully on board it is not a question of if it is a question of when this family responsibility is going to start causing problems in your marriage. It can cause resentment and anger between the two of you and it will get very deep seeded. Do NOT assume he is fully on board. I know from personal experience with this caregiving stuff if you both do not agree that the marriage is the priority relationship and you both are not in full support of what your doing here the survival of the marriage WILL be at risk. Maybe not now but it will happen soon. Have a very frank conversation with him about this. You are now running two households. I'm telling you when everyone is cooperative and supportive it is difficult. you have family members (spouse, Mom, brothers) that are not fully supportive or worse start working against you.. It can become a gruelling situation that will do permanent harm to relationships.

My wife dealt with this for 15 yrs for both parents then just her Mom after Dad died. Because my wife became obsessed with taking care of her parents and her Mother abused the situation our marriage did not survive.
In this role you are now a manager, a leader. You won't be successful and you will get ran all over by the family members and the care givers if you treat this like your the daughter/sister. Believe it or not that is a different relationship. Your now managing an employee (caregiver) and finances and other dynamics. Just like at work the manager has to make unpopular decisions.
FIRST: You need to establish with ALL family members and the caregiver it should be a group meeting. You have POA and good or bad you have final say. (Yes your Mother does not have final say anymore) While in this meeting clarify your brother hitting your Mother up for money stops today. You hold Power of attorney you have FULL control over the money. If he does need something he needs to come to you. In this meeting clarify the caregiver reports to you. In her reporting to you she needs to show the same courtesy and respect she would show any manager she has. If she has a problem with this you may have to part. Let her know the relationship between the two of you MUST be a trusting respectful relationship. The caregiver can really make this dynamic difficult and undermine you with your Mom and brother if it is not. So issues of caregivers pay, hours, outline of duties and responsibilities caregiver negotiates this with you and takes direction from you. Of course Mom and brother are in the house with her so if they need something done like a meal made it does not have to go thru you. BUT you will have in the agreement caregiver is responsible for meals prep (understand what I mean) Mom and brother can refer to you as Hitler, (and they will dog you to the caregiver) whatever. (coach the caregiver if Mom or brother say deragatory things about you they need to take it up with you, she is not going to listen to degrading talk about her boss)It doesn't change things your in charge.
Out of space will open a new box
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Continued:
In this meeting tell the brother that comes to Mom for money he has to come to you. You have POA. Your Mom may not like you takign over the money agree to sit down with her once a month to go over the budget, all financial issues.

as far as the contact goes find a caregiver or a caregiver service offer to pay them a consulting fee to give you tips on the agreement. Maybe they will give you the template they use.

Find the local or county Senior services organization and ask for their help and guidance. They will have all kinds of resources for you.

Also if you have not get an elder care attorney and ask for their help with the agreement.

Keep in mind you are taking something on that 1000s of households are a doing everyday. So you should be able to find duplicatable information and processes to help you thru it.

New baby, Elder Mom, handicap brother. You are taking on a load. Best of success.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Thank you so much, this is all helpful.
you put a lot of information in here so I’m just taking it in and I appreciate you taking the time to answer this question.
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I would be concerned as this caregiver is a boundary crosser and not a very nice person. It makes me wonder about her judgement too. So, even if she appears to be good as a care giver, I would wonder about her boundary crossing and decision making in that area too.
Rarely do these people get better, so she is going to irritate and cause trouble for the forseeable.
I suppose the decision you have is how much time and energy you have now and whether to change the carerer now, or later. Think about what will work best for you and your baby. Congratulations! Try not to wear yourself out at this point as you will need your energy later. xx
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Caroli1 response is spot on and exactly what I was going to suggest. She is violating her duties and responsibilities. She is NOT a family member and has no place inserting herself. Call the agency and request a new person and report this one. One could argue for an 'Elder at Risk' report to Adult Protective Services as well.
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Fire the caregiver. FIRE HER.

And see an eldercare attorney regarding caregiver's contract and you will need to see a tax lawyer to set up a corporation for maximum deductions. Caregiving is a very serious business with a 5 year look back law and estate recovery law. Anything that goes into probate Medicaid can seize after she dies.
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You might want to ask the caregiver if she's aware that insulting and stressing out a pregnant woman can harm her baby. And insulting and stressing out your boss can harm your paycheck. It would only be worth keeping her if she lowered your stress and stayed out of your family dynamic completely, but she's chosen a side and it's not the right --or even the smart--one. Even if she knew absolutely nothing about any member of the family, she should have known better than to insult the woman who holds all the power. You don't want an idiot looking after your mother.
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Sarah3 Nov 2020
What in your opinion sounds as if the caregiver deliberately “insulted” the op??
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Being a caretaker my self , my heart goes out to you . I am not sure the biggest problem is the caretaker. When reading your responses I see a wonderful daughter that is spread so thin that she needs help. You are doing the work of multiple people AND just about to give birth. The caretaker might just want nasty brother not to talk to her, thinking that if you know about it , you might be able to stop him. Your life will change dramatically when the baby is born . Hormones will go crazy . You will get no sleep for months . The stress is enormous. Maybe you could find a caretakers group , mine meets on line these days. Can you put a lid on your moms bank account so she can’t give nasty brother any more money? She will need the $ if she needs a facility in the future. I am not sure I would do anything about the caretaker right now. You said she takes good care of mom . Maybe if she starts on about what nasty says , just shut her down. Maybe just a “consider the source “ response. ..? You know mom is safe for now. Try to bring the energy back to the coming of the baby. One day at a time . First things first. You are tired but you also have the power and the strength, I hope you know that. Everything does NOT have to be taken care of today except yourself and the baby. Good luck and warm thoughts.
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Sarah3 Nov 2020
I agree, the caregiver sounds like she’s doing a really good job but I don’t recommend the op discourage anything but open transparent communication of how things are going. Why should the caregiver feel like she has to stifle concerns she has, the op should want to hear the concerns. Being pregnant I think it’s too much at this point as you feel and that someone should be in charge who is able to handle hearing how things are. No caregiver babysitter nanny etc should feel hesitant to share how things really are going so as not to upset the contact person.
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I would say that's her personality and it probably won't change. Some folks also know when they are picking a scab to someone else's wound. I mean there's only one reason people tell you that someone else doesn't like you or has that special 'hitler' name for you. It's intended to inflict a little harm without the comment coming directly from her. These people 'with good intentions' that share something like that with you are just pot stirrers. It won't change. Might not share with you, but you can bet they will use your own comments to stir another pot. When your brother leaves, let her go. Find someone else to care for mom if needed.
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what is the nature and how much cleaning are you expecting this caregiver to do? You stated your mom is really messy and cleaning is “part of job”.
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Tholden627 Nov 2020
Cleaning crumbs off the counter, sweeping the floor, The dishes which is basically only plastic container Tupperware because that’s the only place my mom keeps her food in.
my mom has a bad habit of leaving a trail of crumbs.
she’s also been condensed to the first floor so that includes a bedroom, and a kitchen.
note: it’s literally in her job description “light cleaning”, and that’s all she’s doing.

in addition all deep cleaning has been done by me and my husband. she also does leave her clothes on the floor in her bedroom.
also, I handled the job for five months prior to her arrival, so I am fully aware of the daily maintenance it most likely takes. at most 15 to 20 minutes a day. so to answer your question, light cleaning.
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