Should the POA be taking a hefty monthly salary?

If your sister is receiving pay, it should be specified in the POA document that your mother signed. Look at the POA form and see what it says about pay.

If she has been taking $1,000 for 5 years, she has taken $60,000 plus the car. I am afraid that you will have to get an attorney. Most POA documents do not allow payment to the POA. Is she on the checking accounts, too?

I did pay Mother's POA $500 for 2 months, because it was a lot of work. But that is all.

Revoke that POA and name someone else. I would think that your sister should be charged with embezzlement.

In a sense it IS all about the money, but there is nothing wrong with that. Nobody likes to be cheated. The actual dollar amount is relative. Does sis work a high income job in which she would see the compensation as a fair and reasonable compensation for her time? If your mom has been in a nursing home paying her own way for 5 years then I assume she has considerable assets. On the other hand my mom only pays me slightly more than that and she lives with me and I provide all her care, and I feel that I am lucky to be so very well compensated. I would think that the actual work involved for your mom would probably be minimal at this point. Paying the nursing home, buying sundries, and managing her investments shouldn't take up very much of her time. It is my understanding that a POA can be impelled to provide an accounting of their finances. She lawyered up first, perhaps it is time for you to do the same.

You stated you lived far away. How plugged in are you concerning your mothers needs and care? Is it possible your sister is earning her pay? It does seem suspect if mom is in a care facility. If there is any possible solution via meeting with your sister and family members to settle this, you should exhaust all efforts to do so. If everyone lawyers up and fights it out it will wreck you family and finances. You can explore this site and read endless threads of these epic family battles. The nuclear option my be your only recourse but avoid it if possible. Good luck....

I am almost positive it is NOT in the POA document. She claimed she had "devastating professional losses" when the stroke first happened, since she was running her own business and felt the time spent helping our mom took away from her income. I question that it was my mom's stroke that caused this actually, but we three sisters agreed to allowing her an income as POA. The problem is that it has gone on way too long and at least two of us want it to stop. The POA sister has had her own steady income for 3+ years (at least) as she is teaching at a Community College and earning a regular salary. She has been taking a POA salary at least 3+ years too long as far as we're concerned. None of us are financially comfortable, and hiring our own lawyer to revoke her POA sounds complicated. Especially since she is presumably doing a good job as health care advocate. We just hope that she is being honest with the financial matters since she is not being transparent. And certainly a hefty POA salary at this point is not warranted. Is there some other way for us to get her to stop paying herself a monthly salary?

Alarmed, it shouldn't matter how much money your sister makes in her own employment.... she is STILL putting in extra hours handing the medical and financial POA. When you think about it the "hefty" pay of $1k per month comes out to $250 per week before payroll taxes. Now narrow that down by the number of hours that are involved to get her hourly rate.... you'd be surprised how those hours can add up, and how low that hourly rate can be.

Would you or another sister wish to help lessen the load and take over being medical and financial POA? Bet your POA sister would enjoy the break of doing this for five years.

There are no payroll taxes. My sister is paying herself directly from my mom's assets. If a POA can be required to provide an accounting of their finances, does a lawyer have to do it?

I believe that we were all plugged in more when the stroke first happened. Now that my mom has been very stable and being cared for by the nursing home, the POA sister does not share much. We have all tried to help and take on some of the responsibilities, but the POA sister is trying to maintain tight control of everything (including who can visit my mom).

Regardless of how much time and effort has been spent by the POA and/or how much money she has or has not earned at her own work, the only, and I stress ONLY way she is entitled to financial compensation is if it is written in the original POA document which represents your mother's wishes. It doesn't matter that you and your sisters have come together and decided that it is alright. Look up the duties of a POA. They are to carry out the wishes and care of the person for whom they are the agent. That is all. No one has any right to make decisions to pay a salary to the POA except your mother.

Jessie and Chicago are right - check the document, If it does not specify that a salary of a certain amount is to be paid to the POA, then, basically, and I hate too say this, the POA is stealing from your mother's estate. You need to see a lawyer - maybe legal aide if you can't afford one - and have this stop. Now as well as the $1000 a month your sis has become secretive about the estate and more controlling about visits to your mum. It all which smells very fishy to me! can the sis's get together and pool resources to have a few sessions with a lawyer? Is there any danger of your mum running out of money so she cannot support herself? This is not good.

Alarmed, how about asking Mother if she did, in fact, say that the sister could draw a salary for being her medical and financial POA. Some people just don't think about putting it into writing. Of course the $12k per year could be viewed as a gift via the IRS where a parent is allowed to give to a child $14k per year that is not taxable. Or your sister could view it as income and pay quarterly estimated taxes.

If I was that sister who has the POA, I would quickly hand it over to the rest of the siblings... let them see first hand that being POA isn't as simple as it sounds. I assume one would need to drive Mom to the doctor, dentist, etc. and if like in my case I use my parent's car because my Mom is at a point where it is too difficult for her to climb up into my vehicle. Plus attend monthly meetings at the nursing home to have an overview of your Mother's care. Plus make sure there is enough money to pay for the nursing home, and any misc items that your Mother needs, etc.

My mom lost the ability to communicate verbally during her stroke. She can nod her head and communicate in other ways, but asking her if she gave my sister permission to draw an income is not possible. My mom is also not able to get out of her bed as she lost complete mobility on her right side. Now that she has been in bed for 5 years, she is barely able to use her left side either. The POA sister is not using my mom's car to bring her to appointments. My mom doesn't go anywhere.

The problem with actually asking my mom if she would be okay with all this, is that she had a fairly severe stroke and does not always answer in what may seem to be a logical way. I have asked her questions, and gotten a smile with a yes nod, when I would have expected the answer to be a no. My guess is that the POA sister began paying herself shortly after we sisters discussed it, not because my mom had given permission.

As for taking on the responsibilities of the POA. Me and my other 3 sisters have certainly jumped in whenever we can, and certainly whenever asked. We travel and visit whenever possible. The POA sister lives closest and tends to like to do things herself. I don't believe monthly meetings are attended but I do not know everything.

Just a few pennorth worth here as I understand it the role of anyone dealing with the financial affairs of the vulnerable is to ensure that their financial status is not being abused. If she is taking 1k a month and cannot show what that money is used for then you will obviously challenge her abuse of POA and unltimately financial abuse of your mother. perhaps a call to the nursing home to find out what involvement she actually has would be helpful and you would certainly be justified in asking for a detail breakdown and summary of your mother's current financial status. there is a pioeve on this and I have copied it her for you:
Compensation for decision-makers, gift-giving, and any beneficiary changes must be outlined in the POA document. One common question people have about POAs is whether or not someone is allowed to be paid for being making decisions for an injured loved one. Fricker says that any compensation must be outlined in the document ahead of time to be legal. She advises older adults who are considering appointing someone to have POA to think about including a provision that allows that person to be paid for their services. "Offering to pay a chosen POA is a way to incentivize them to take the extra time and care necessary to literally be in charge of another human being," she says.

I remember an earlier thread on this very issue. I doubt the POA document says that she can draw that money out. This will cause a gifting problem if mom every has to apply for Medicaid. This needs to be looked into soon!

My POA for my mother prohibits my being paid for acting as my mother's agent. It does, however, allow me to be reimbursed for reasonable expenses. Could you ask your sister to see a copy of the POA? If she refuses, tell her that you and the other sisters will be contacting a lawyer to determine your rights in this situation. You might also ask her if she is claiming this income on her tax returns. POA sis could be in trouble is she is not claiming this as income and paying taxes on it. If she is calling it a gift (which is a bit shaky since it was originally set up as compensation), there could be problems if mom needs Medicaid in the future.

Why has this been allowed to go on for 5 years which equals $60,000. Even if she has long term care insurance, she's probably spent $150,000 on what the LTC insurance did not cover. If she has to apply for medicaid at some point, someone is going to have to come up with $60,000 to spend on her care before Medicaid will be approved. Please get on top of this soon!

I am retired and spend thousands of my own money caring for my mother. I have access to her funds and would not think of drawing from it for salary or for my expenses in caring for her as this was not included in the POA when it was set up.. This is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of what is legal, and what is fraudulent.
Your sister should return to her mother's estate any money she has not spent directly on your mother's care i.e. drawn for her own expenses/use. Some people think of it as spending their inheritance in advance. There is no legal way to do that as POA.

I got a copy of the original signed and notarized POA document that my mom signed. As suspected, there is nothing in there about a salary for the POA. There is something in there about "Power to Gift", but from the sounds of this blog, gifts to the POA herself should have been reported on the POA's taxes, and could affect Medicaid eligibility. I guess it's time to talk to a lawyer. Since my sister felt she couldn't handle talking to us directly, I guess it's time to play the game. Very sad.

See a lawyer and make it so!

Remember in the process to take no prisoners in the pursuit of your goal.

Alarmed, it is very sad, but good that you have the document. You can clarify with a lawyer what the Power to Gift means. I doubt it means 1k a month for 5 years. Yes, I believe that gifts can affect Medicaid eligibility and should be reported in taxes. I am glad that you are making progress. Do keep us informed. You are not the only one in this type of situation. Good luck.

This discussion is always very interesting and controversial. I'm POA for my mother, and in the document, it does state that the POA can be "fairly compensated." I'm also Co-Trustee of her trust, and per the trust document, it states that the Co-Trustee can be "fairly compensated" as well. I'm surprised that this isn't the case all the time, because it IS a lot of work and responsibility.
Having said all that -- I did start to compensate myself about 8 months ago now. That was about 3 years into taking more and more on for my mother. I researched average hourly wages for daily management, and it's quite a large range, so I stay near the bottom end of the spectrum. I keep timesheets with all of my tasks spelled out (it's also a bit of a journal, a log of everything that's going on).
This job requires a lot of good judgment, which is not always easy. I bet we were all pretty much thrown into this role without little to no instruction. I've learned SO much from the people on this site--don't think I could do what I need to do without you all!

I'll just add this as well --- when you have a sibling who is capable of helping but prefers to act like the Invisible Man -- unless he needs money -- that's something else I took into consideration before finally deciding to accept compensation. Per my parents' wishes, whatever is left will be split evenly between us. This is the sibling who was a violent druggie/alcoholic/convict for years (he is sober now, I'll give him that), that hasn't done anything except call now and then asking for money, and then he disappears again until next time.
So, just saying...

whatever you do, the POA status needs to change. Even if your Mother passes away, the lawyers, judge will recognize the POA even though it should be no longer a POA since the POA is only for the living. Or do like my sister in law. Do a guardianship, make up a bunch stuff, then fire the staff, remove your Mother's medicines and start removing her possessions. I think I would do a new POA. Like my sister in law did, she used my parents own money to end their lives and steal their money. Or send your children to law school. My State paid law school for sister in law in exchange for a job commitment with the State (La).

I'm guessing mom has enough funds to private pay her stay at the nursing home. If not and she is receiving long term care Medicaid to help pay for her stay, the state will issues a cost of care notice; this is what she will be required to pay the nursing home for her stay as the ltc Medicaid doesn't cover all the costs. If mom is private pay and has assets, then the $1000.00 per month seem to be a bit excessive to me. Definitely check the out the POA form and how it is worded. Does the POA she signed name anyone else as alternate POA? Even with a POA, things must be on the up and up and receipts for income, assets and disbursements must be maintained. Is mom able to speak? If so ask her what she wanted regarding the POA. I would speak with an attorney as he/she can give you state specific information. Good luck.

I have to agree with freqflyer's posting. I would trade all the money in the world to have my my parents back, but when it came to money, ultimately, in order to keep my house, I ended up having to take some money, in order to keep my own roof over my head. I feel tremendously guilty about that, but I had no choice. I had to take over as POA for my parents, since my sister who was primary said she couldn't do it. You say your mother is fairly stable, yet she's still living in a nursing home. There are specific requirements that need to be met, in order for your mother to continue to live there. You can not imagine how demanding it is, mentally, emotionally, and physically, unless you are in those shoes. My husband and I had to move almost everything from my parents home when it became too dangerous for them to live there. None of my siblings helped. Yes, most lived farther away, but our parents raised us and I can not understand why they didn't believe it wasn't important to alter their lives to even visit on a monthly basis. My parents were hurt and would ask me, why no else visited. It can be a lot more difficult to take care of a parent than you think, even a mobile parent. I started taking care of my parents, almost four years ago, as they started to decline physically and emotionally. Although I did not live the closest to my parents, my husband and I were the ones that did 99% of everything. What would I have loved for my five siblings to do? Make a conscious decision to visit at least once a month. I had a job that I failed miserably at (as an investigator) because I had to constantly communicate with the assisted living facilities we eventually moved into, for the smallest things. Buying her favorite brand of disposable underwear, looking for the t.v. remote, phone, listening to the many real of imagined complaints, or other seemingly small tasks. By the time my mother passed away, we spoke no fewer than four times on the phone daily. I miss our calls. :( I had to fight rush hour, many times, and quit sharing these visits with my siblings, because, it wasn't worth mentioning, and I knew they felt guilty and didn't want to hear. My siblings encouraged me to take money for myself, and during the last year, I did, because I put 200,000 miles on my car in four years, had to take a total of about one year's time off from work, and have mentally and physically declined in health. I was actually told by a sibling's friend that I needed to take better care of myself. Make no mistake, I would do it all again. My mother was my best friend, and she died four months ago. But, I wish she had a car I could drive, because it was easier for her to get into her car, instead of me getting her into mine. My mother was too short to get into my car without assistance. Sadly, now that my parents are both gone, my siblings are bereft and wish they had altered their busy lives. Every time someone asked me about finances I volunteered that they could take my place. I was close to getting a lawyer to answer the questions I fielded that were insulting, because unless you're there all the time, you can not possibly understand.

POA can in fact be reimbursed. There are laws about this, in my state, even if the poa document tries to say no compensation, the statute on the books over rules that and provided for.reasonable compensation. How exactly this all is overseen, is the question. Guardianship has an existing court & process (accounting is required). Poa has no specific court or process, until, someone files a lawsuit....so the OP will have to lawyer up and pay for that lawyer, go to court, and prove sister did not have the right to whatever you claim she is doing wrong.
And I suspect if mom had a stroke 5 yrs ago, she may no longer be able to draw up a new poa. So her old poa is it, or, a judge would appoint a guardian (who could be someone totally unrelated--especially if all.the kids are fighting).
The lesson I take away from your post, is everyone needs to understand the laws of their own state, and clearly state their wishes in their poa, medical directive, etc. If the attorney is glossing over the details, find a new attorney.

As to the compensation issue, and whether an agent may receive compensation while acting for a principal under a POA, check the laws of your state. Section 5609 of our Pennsylvania statute states : "Compensation. --In the absence of a specific provision to the contrary in the power of attorney, the agent shall be entitled to reasonable compensation based upon the actual responsibilities assumed and performed." However, one must be careful that an agent's actions and taking money from the estate do not result in his principal's being disqualified from Medicaid for transferring money without receiving services at fair market value. Also, in some states if there is an obligation to support the person in the fist place, that may prevent an agent's receiving compensation.
In our office we encourage agents to draw compensation and we point out that an agent's compensation is considerably less than it would cost for a guardian appointed by the court, but we draft the appropriate employment agreement and make certain the arrangement complies with Pennsylvania law in every other respect, and that other family members are aware.
But it all depends upon the law in your state for each state has it's own law on POA's. In our state, Pennsylvania, if there is some evidence the agent is abusing their power, then there are two alternatives. The first is to call the county agency on aging and report elder abuse. The second is to petition the court for the appointment of a guardian to take over the affairs of the principal. You should consult with an attorney in your state and your area before you do any of these because there is no guarantee who the court will appoint as guardian. Also, in some states the beneficiaries of the estate may bring a citation for an accounting of the agent, and it depends upon state law.
The take home message is that you need to consult with an attorney familiar with the laws of your state, because every state's law is different.

I am mums POA health and finance, I am her primary carer and I receive about 100$ a week from the state. For that I do at least 60 hours a week care sometimes much more and that is me with her one on one including taking her out and to hospital/doctors/specialists. In addition to that I run her home make sure all bills are bona fide and paid on time, the gardening, decorating apart from disinfecting everything countless times a day. Do I get paid as a POA do I heck as like it is not done for the money over here unless mum made specific provision and she says Im not paying you thats your job, you live in my house free what more do you want? Hmmm some sort of life would be good Mum but of course we dont say what we feel. Im not having a go at anyone just pointing out some of the differences and some of the similarities we all face. In the UK we HAVE to keep full acounts of all monies paid in and out and it can be challenged through our courts

Yes, check with your state's laws.
Here is one case, which involves a POA receiving compensation, which has Q & A from SSA in 2009, and it was resolved that the POA was not doing wrong:

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/1507210026

I am the sole caregiver for my Dad. He lives with me and has Stage 2 Alzheimer's. I think $1000 is excessive if your mom is in a nursing home. I wouldn't dream of doing it.

I think u should talk to a lawyer. Each state laws re different. I think $1000 is unreasonable. I handle two POAs and was not told I could get a salary. U need to talk to Medicaid. If Mom needs Medicaid at some point and they may check her finances and question the large withdraws. If found they were not allowed, ur sister may have to pay the money back to go towards ur Moms care before Medicaid takes over.